no jail Scooter
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- k0na_an0k0
WHO CARES!?!
have you guys SEEN the new iPhone!?!
- k0na_an0k0
The hypocrisy is unpardonable. President Bush's decision to commute the sentence of a convicted liar brought out the worst in both parties.
art.protest.afp.gi.jpgIn keeping I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby out of jail, Bush defied his promise to hold wrongdoers accountable and undercut his 2000 campaign pledge to "restore honor and dignity" to the White House. And it might be a cynical first step toward issuing a full pardon at the conclusion of his term.
Democrats responded as if they don't live in glass houses, decrying corruption, favoritism and a lack of justice.
"This commutation sends the clear signal that in this administration, cronyism and ideology trump competence and justice," said Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, a leading candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination.
It was a brazen statement from a woman entangled in many Clinton White House scandals, including the final one: On his last day in office, President Clinton granted 140 pardons and 36 commutations, many of them controversial.
One of those pardoned was Marc Rich, who had fled the country after being indicted for tax evasion and whose wife had donated more than $1 million to Democratic causes.
Clinton's half brother, Roger, who was convicted of distributing cocaine and lobbied the White House on behalf of others, also received a pardon.
- TheBlueOne0
'Traitor'... isn't the word for Libby... if you've paid close attention to the situation (which i know you have dobs)... you'll see it leads back to his bosses... Libby is a patsy... and he's the only one anyone can make anything stick to... and the ONLY thing that sticks is obstruction of justice...
PonyBoy
(Jul 3 07, 13:13)I'd use Traitor, just like I used it for Ollie North. These guys are supposed to protect the Constitution, swearing an oath to that effect upon taking office. Cheney meanwhile is subverting the document left and right (Not a part of the executive? Fucking joke.) Cheney is a traitor to upholding the constitution. Bush lies to take the country to war, absconding his responsibilities. Libby, like a good Nazi, is just "following orders'.
Traitors to the Constitution and it's legacy, everyone of them.
- TheBlueOne0
Respond
convicted of perjury, blueOne... NOTHING more...PonyBoy
(Jul 3 07, 13:38)true. Didn;t bother going back and reading all previous posts. My bad.
And I see you're falling back on the old Conservative cannard:
"Bu...bu..bu..but Clinton did it!"
Excellent example of a finely thought out reasoned argument. For a six year old.
- PonyBoy0
I'd use Traitor, just like I used it for Ollie North. These guys are supposed to protect the Constitution, swearing an oath to that effect upon taking office. Cheney meanwhile is subverting the document left and right (Not a part of the executive? Fucking joke.) Cheney is a traitor to upholding the constitution. Bush lies to take the country to war, absconding his responsibilities. Libby, like a good Nazi, is just "following orders'.
Traitors to the Constitution and it's legacy, everyone of them.
TheBlueOne
(Jul 3 07, 13:40)
------See... you just wrote what this is all really about..
... again - there's nothing that sticks w/the traitor charge on Libby... so I can't call for his literal death as some of you are (talking to you pyeaton... if I'm interpreted one of your last posts correctly about what happens to even those who 'follow orders')...
... but your points are dead-on reasonable, BlueOne... I'm not arguing the slime in the Administration... which is who you REALLY WANT... not the pee-on... who's getting pissed on.
- mrdobolina0
broken record
- mrdobolina0
I hate that this administration divided my country so much.
- monkeyshine0
Kona, I'm feeling pretty disgusted by the democrats right now but I think this Libby controversy goes much deeper than "well they did it too". And to dismiss the implications of Bush, etc.s actions just adds to the noise and perpetuates the disease.
- lowimpakt0
if he truely was just acting under orders (again, i'm open to any damning information anyone has to present), then he shouldn't have to take full responsibility.
subversve
(Jul 3 07, 01:04)
----------------------surely you mean he should have gone to jail alongside plenty of other people in the corrupt bureaucracy.
not that he should be let free at the whim of his corrupt boss.
- PonyBoy0
"Bu...bu..bu..but Clinton did it!"
Excellent example of a finely thought out reasoned argument. For a six year old.
TheBlueOne
(Jul 3 07, 13:41)
---
you're missing my point...... i'm discussing PERJURY. It's a crime - it has consequences... none which took to Clinton... ;)
... it's my way of saying that we DON'T live in a world of double-standards amongst politicians... because they 'get away with SHIT' on BOTH sides.
- moth0
isn't it about fuckin time you bloody americans do something about this idiot?!!!!
bolus
(Jul 2 07, 23:41)They like this idiot, bolus.
- TheBlueOne0
Look, I use 'traitor" in the sense of dishonorable action towards the Office they hold, not a legally binding word - the Constitution does a good job of defining treason and these guys, despite the vileness of their actions don't meet the criteria.
But using my loose definition of traitor in this context I'd say being the patsy for the bigger fish implicates you in their guilt and crimes a priori.
I wouldn't call for his literal death of course, however I would call for the impeachment of this rotting administration.
Of course, the pissants in the Democratic congress are probably still "keeping their powder dry" to take on something, you know, serious...whenever they think that shows up..
- PonyBoy0
Now that was reasonable, BlueOne... totally agree.
See... my guess is Bush pardoned him as a way of saying... 'Please continue to keep your mouth shut...."
... but... BUT!!!!!... I have no proof of that. You follow?
Don't get me wrong... they're pure slime... something's there... but nothing is sticking... YET.
Once 'they' get around Cheney's blockade... then we'll probably get some real info. That's what people should really be concerned about - getting the right info... and not being all pissy cuz a pee-on got out of a 30 month jail sentence. He's still being fined and is on probation (if that means anything... $250k / 2 yr probation)... AND he can't ever practice law again given his conviction.
It's lame... agreed... but this is apparently how things go w/politicians.
- k0na_an0k0
monkeyshine, i didn't write that, i just found it interesting and thought it needed to be noted.
i feel the same way as you.
- TheBlueOne0
... i'm discussing PERJURY. It's a crime - it has consequences... none which took to Clinton... ;)
PonyBoy
(Jul 3 07, 13:49)Indeed it is a crime.
a) Clinton was never convicted of it. It was alleged and the Congress proceeded on Impeachment charges based on the allegation of it,
b) Clinton was impeached and disbarred. Fairly significant consequences for alleged perjury.
c) Heck 'll concur that Clinton committed perjury with his whole "I did not have sex.." line. Although it was a sideline line of questioning in an ongoing witchhunt by Republicans into his financial dealings that bore zero fruit.
d) Libby was convicted of perjury lying directly about the matter at hand in an ongoing investigation. One about taking the country to war on false pretenses.
- TheBlueOne0
They like this idiot, bolus.
moth
(Jul 3 07, 03:16)No, only 27% do...however it's the dumbest most ignorant 20% and the remaining 7% are all the billionares Bush made in the last 6+ years at the expense of the middle class his policies have fucked. SO he's got the Ignorant and the Rich. That potent combination basically kept your European monarchies going for a few centuries...so we're just basically going back to the future here...
- material-10
agreed monkeyshine, we are all familiar with recent history including clintons admin.
- bolus0
that's about the support saddam had in Iraq.. :)
- mrdobolina0
exactly, blueone.
apples and oranges.