Creationist Lies
- Started
- Last post
- 827 Responses
- discipler0
show me where, mimio... and I'll explain what you are not understanding.
- TheTick0
You know I got to thank everyone in this thread -yes, even you discipler..
It made me go back and think about all these big questions and wher eI really do stand spiritually and metaphysically..and physically I suppose in all of this..
My father recently passed away and if you haven't had to deal with the death of a parent (or child..or grew up in a warzone I suppose) then you haven't really had to deal with too much existential crisis and man I am still not sure which way is up..
But I remember being brought up all religious and then rejecting it all..and then one day a few years later rereading the bible by myself front to back and found myself in awe. I thought this was one mad deep body of knowledge - far deeper and more meaningful than I was ever told about - or even what I found in the normal telling of what it's all supposed to mean...
And I also started to metaphysically read alot of the chaos theory/complexity/quantum physics stuff and got an incredible sense of the universe to that as well..something awe inspiring..
Discipler - I guess that's why I get so personally upset. I find a literal reading of the bible and genesis in particular as kind of simple minded. And I fond the work of science - as opposed ot making the universe a cold and dark place - one filled with miracles and light.
I believe in god I think, not sure if I believe in a personal one though. If you need one cool...I'm kinda happy that god doesn't but into my business and I stay out of his...
The funny thing is I think I pray everyday - I usually say "Hey god it's me..." That works for me...All the dogma and all that other crap that comes out of churches about people telling other people wha's right or what god did or said? Strikes me as incredible human hubris..you know forgetting to remove the plank from your eye and all that...
For me it's not even that science and religion are contridictory - in fact science I truly believe originated is a form of heresy in a sense. Lots of religious guys - Galileo, Newton, Copernicus looking for evedince of god's work outside of the Bible..tat's still going on...why the church(es) are so violent to that its it fucks with there monopoly on being able to tell everyone about god and the attendant power.
These are my personal beliefs...
- Mimio0
Discipler, You're making the logical fallacies.
- JazX0
I agree. I stopped being serious long ago.
Better we start something else with a better name as well. Let's be fair.
- Dublao70
You’re going to hate me, but...
When I was younger people used to tell me that there was a god, and that, he did in fact love me very much. This was very hard for me to understand.
I used to think: God is to Earth as I am to My Ant Farm.
Sure I give-ith and take-ith away-ith, but I didn’t actually love any single ant in my ant farm. Shit I couldn’t even tell the little guys apart.I guess to me this means a few things:
1. If there is a god, he doesn’t love you.
2. You have the same chance of working these issues out as my dearly departed ants.Now go have some fun and quit stressing!
- discipler0
The thread is just annoying at this point, with people ignoring logical arguments (or not getting them) and asking questions that have already been dealt with in the thread. Not to mention, categorically false claims like "biology has demonstrated irreducible complexity wrong". Get a clue. Don't think I'm gonna last much longer in this.
- JazX0
i dare you all to quit this thread at 800.
gruntt
(Jun 15 05, 11:26)Like Old English...
- Jaline0
.
- Jaline0
.
- gruntt0
i dare you all to quit this thread at 800.
- TheTick0
And science doesn't really like "something from nothing " either, but it does look for Order and how it arises. I like the body of thought that examines how the very structural laws of the universe provide order and matter and energy, and life itself might be a common and even expected particular state of order for material in the universe.
This implies - unlike the phiosophical side of Christianity - which basically implies that we are sinful and life is seperate and special form the universe, and man special but detached from god - but rather that we humans and the life here on earth are expected and part and parcel of the fabric of the universe and are at home here.
I like Stuart Kaufman's work on this and his work on Emergent Properties.
http://home.wxs.nl/~gkorthof/kor…
http://www.ucalgary.ca/oncampus/…
- trainer0
You are changing the subject. Evolution doesn't attempt to answer this, and neither will I. At the same time, you try hide behind a position for which the question isn't even valid - "everything needs a cause EXCEPT God!"
Evolutionary biologists have already produced answers for the irreducible complexity objection anyway (you didn't cite a specific one here but much of it is not irreducible at all).
- JazX0
Hey, hey Robespierre's. Back to the Extinction talk. If they laws are changing, even gradually, over time, don't you think they could have accelerated some Catastrophic event. There have been many.
- k770
so this designer who came from nowhere, took a bunch of nothing and created all the heavens and earth. Sounds like magic to me.
Then to create a less than perfect physical world after all that work just seems like a failed attempt. I give the designer a A- for concept and a C- for execution.
kld
(Jun 15 05, 11:12)creating something out of nothing is what i do everyday. that's what "creativity" is.. that's what creation is.. magic? hell yeah! and miracles...
- TheTick0
"During these times, Baal and his consort Ashtoreth were worshiped by many Israelites both in Samaria (Israel) and Judah even after the captivity, mainly by those who remained in the conquered lands. Yahwists like Ezra finally purged the Israelites (by then known as Jews) of all Baal residuals and even forced them to give up their Baalish wives and families (see Ezra 9-10 ). Ezra's purging of Baal appeared to be complete. It was his wish to erase Baal completely from the Israelite past; however, the residuals in Genesis 1 and 3 continue to remind us not only of Israel's polytheistic past but of the Canaanite origins of Judaism.
Using archaeological evidence on one hand and biblical between-the-line implications on the other, the following conclusions support the premises stated above:
(1) Most of the Israelites at the time of the exodus (about 1250 B.C.) were already located in the Canaanite area, which, incidentally, was at that time a part of Greater Egypt. A relatively small number, probably only one tribe (Levi), were in Egypt. Exodus 1:15 , for example, says that only two midwives were needed to attend the births of Hebrew children. Furthermore, the Israelites needed divine help to defeat a small seminomadic tribe (Ex. 17:8-13 ) in contradiction to the later editor's estimate of an army of 600,000 men (12:37 ) besides children (and women?).
(2) This relatively small group of Israelites from the outside (Egypt proper) formed some type of symbiotic relationship with the much larger inside group (which consisted of Israelites and Canaanites, the so-called mixed multitude) to form the "12 tribes" (when they were not fighting each other).
(3) The outside group was the Yahwist cult, the inside group the Baal cult. The struggle between the two groups went on for well over 500 years.
(4) Apparently it was not until the reign of Josiah that the Yahwist group was able to achieve dominance. The "lost book" of Deuteronomy was discovered in the house of the LORD (2 Kings 22:8 ), and the Passover was reinstituted after a lapse of 500 years (if indeed it even existed before then). The golden calf (symbol of the Kings of Israel) from the reign of Jeroboam was suppressed (2 Kings 23:15 ).
(5) Biblical scholars agree on how the Pentateuch was put together. The sources were (E) Elohist, (J) Yahwist, (P) Priestly, (D) Deuteronomist, and (R) Redactor. The last two were written to dovetail with the first two, and the writers tried to do two things: (1) eliminate all contradictions, and (2) eliminate all vestiges of the Israelite primitive past of pagan polytheisism. "
- Mimio0
discipler, it's far more honest to say that you don't know something than place a god at the limits of your understanding.
- TheTick0
Discipler I bet some of those other gods that were Yahweh's buddies mentioned in the early bible might be able to tell us where he came from...and they're there in the scripture...
- kld0
It is illogical and downright absurd to suggest that something came from nothing.
discipler(Jun 15 05, 10:53)
so this designer who came from nowhere, took a bunch of nothing and created all the heavens and earth. Sounds like magic to me.
Then to create a less than perfect physical world after all that work just seems like a failed attempt. I give the designer a A- for concept and a C- for execution.
- discipler0
trainer, what do you think caused matter and irreducibly complex organisms? Since it all had a starting point... where did it come from?
- Mimio0
discipler, what created God then? You make the same error you're accusing others of making. You just stick magic-religious-hokum at the end of your "logic".