gay anti gay?
Out of context: Reply #67
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- gramme0
Lukus, thanks for the clarifications and apology. For the record, my original posts were written a while back, and since then I've reflected from time to time on what I think about these issues.
First of all, I maintain that homosexuality is a choice for reasons I've already covered and don't need to repeat. I've not seen scientific proof which points to genetic disposition. I realize that's an extremely unpopular position to take, but frankly I don't care about following any sort of general consensus—be it secular or religious. I prefer to come to my own conclusions about important matters in life based on what I read in the Bible (vs. what is fed unfiltered to me by someone else), what I see in the world, and what I learn from experience. The ultimate anchor for me though is still the infallible word of God, which is of course the point of departure for you and me.
Having said the above, it REALLY doesn't matter one way or another, from a moral standpoint, whether someone is born gay or whether it's a choice. I believe that everyone is born with a sinful nature. By that I mean that we are prone to do wrong to one another and to ourselves. And when I say "everyone" I mean every. single. person who ever lived, with the sole exception of Christ.
We all have the choice to do good or to do wrong. While we are all born imperfect and naturally selfish, we are also each born with a conscience which tells us on some level when something we do is right or wrong. This is what the Bible refers to when it says in multiple places that man is made in the image of God. Man not only reasons, but he has a soul and a conscience. He can discern good from evil, although a conscience can be sharpened or dulled by our decisions. It's surprisingly easy for us to numb ourselves to the difference between right and wrong.
So again, if we're all born with a common predilection to make bad decisions, that doesn't mean we're without recourse. Everyone has certain weaknesses, certain errors of judgment they're more likely to make than others. But we all have our fair share. I can think of multiple occasions where my own pride, insecurities, and obsession with career have been displayed here in all their ugliness.
Like I said, we can go against our selfish, proud grain and choose to be selfless. But this decision doesn't come naturally; it requires us to step outside of ourselves and consider our fellow man, which is often uncomfortable since we are programmed for self-preservation at all costs. Furthermore, I believe the only way to do anything truly good is to do it for a higher authority (as opposed to getting a personal high from helping another person, gaining popularity, etc.)—namely, to do every good act out of an ultimate desire to please God. Because if it isn't done for God's glory, then we're still serving our own selfish aims, even if we are champion philanthropists. As Bob Dylan once said, everybody gotta serve somebody.
Therefore, I think your idea about a required rationalization is incorrect and unnecessary. As I said above, the discussion about genetics versus choice or product of experience is moot at the end of it all, given the sinful nature we all have.
You and Georges are mistaken when you say that I am pointing the finger at gay people or any other group in society. BELIEVING a lifestyle choice to be wrong, and SHUNNING such persons are two very different things. The degree of confusion between those two distinct things is alarming and saddens me. It's 100% feasible to disagree with someone's decisions, and still accept—even love them—on a personal level. Furthermore, I believe that because everyone is made in the image of God, we are all worthy of respect and good will. That does not mean, however, that we must always agree with one another. And for whatever it's worth to you, I don't see homosexuality as worse than any one of my own myriad weaknesses. It just happens to be the topic of this thread.
In regards to whether a loving God could let someone be born into such a state, the fact is that we are not helpless in our shortcomings. In fact God loved us so much that He who preceded time came to live on earth, among us, in poverty, warts and all. Christ experienced every form of human frailty except sin. This included loneliness; doubt: hunger; cold; sickness; and even severe torture. There were so many times when he could have asked for a legion of angels to wipe out his opponents, but he never did that. He knew he had to experience every nuance and struggle of human existence. On top of all that, he suffered a cruel, unwarranted death in the form of Roman crucifixion, which wore on for hours before he finally died. But then he who was humiliated was glorified when he rose from the dead.
Whether you buy it or not, it's an amazing story.
Jesus did not cast a stone at Mary when she was accused of promiscuity and prostitution, because she knew her faults, believed in Christ, and accepted his forgiveness. But neither was Christ afraid to condemn things like lying, divorce, lust, or greed.
It's unfortunate that so many people gloss over Christ's more controversial proclamations and focus on his statements that are generally agreed with in society. As I mentioned before, people don't like real or perceived infringements on their idea of freedom. What we don't realize is that a perceived freedom to determine our own moral standards makes us slaves to our own whims and desires. I would rather set my standards on something less faulty and limited than myself.