Making a Video Game...
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- palimpsest3
They grow up so fast!
You've done well, mantrakid.
- mantrakid1
@proph
Actually I developed cosmochoria fully on a mac - just using parallels to run windows 7 in and then ran Construct 2 there. I would say that absolutely yes Construct 2 (and im assuming 3) was fun to use and had a very low barrier of entry. I messed with it a couple years before finally sitting down to do a 'serious' game with it (cosmochoria) but i could have reduced those couple years to a solid couple months if i just sat down and spent a few hours a day learning / building / experimenting with it.
The biggest down side i think is that once you have a game, your options are much more limited with Construct (HTML) than they would be if you used something like Unity or Unreal engines. basically, performance is shit on anything other than an decent powered computer, unless you're making tiny simple games. As soon as you start scaling into something with more graphics, or requiring more stuff going on, i feel like that's where construct 2 starts to break down when porting to, say, mobile or consoles. If you ever just want to experiment / learn / do stuff for PC/Mac/Linux then i think you're good.
THAT BEING SAID. Personally, I wish i spent those few years experimenting with Unity instead of Construct 2. If i had that legup with unity and had started / built cosmochoria in unity instead of C2, the business opportunities would have been much much much better overall. I had to turn down some dope stuff simply because going from Construct 2 to, say, console or mobile was just too much of a pain in the ass and would cost simply too much to make it worth it.
Unity, Construct 2, GameMaker... whatever you decide on, you CAN do something dope, just gotta get the daily practice in like anything and it will come together, especially if you already have an eye for the visual stuff, and even better if you're a gamer yourself with an appreciation for the subtleties / mechanics / etc.
- Thanks for the heads up on this. I have been messing around with several tools like Tiled and Spritebuilder but have been admiring the speed of C2 and Buildboxprophetone
- I am primarily looking at building out 2D retro arcade style games at first, using the classic gameplay style and mechanics, good starting point to learn imoprophetone
- I think I am going to spend the next few months building out artwork components to have a few small titles ready to go, perhaps C3 will be ready by thenprophetone
- Unity looks awesome but it's one of those things where I have to decide if it's the way to go first and invest the time and $150 per mo (!)prophetone
- I think I need to start small, feel things out. I also don't want to get cornered if I do end up building something super dope and performance issues are a probprophetone
- Something to chew on...prophetone
- Hit me up on email if you wanna chat bout this shit there too, nate@3030.camantrakid
- I would say yeah start small. Even just messing with C2 for now until C3 comes out is a great idea to keep your feet wet / learning going.mantrakid
- I would say if you feel like you're at a point where you want to go commercial with it, take a serious moment to analyze whether its worth it to continue in ..mantrakid
- Your current environment, or to port over to something more versatile before it gets too heavy. I wish i spent a few months porting Cosmo to Unity before...mantrakid
- I spent another year and a half finishing it in Construct 2. Just would have made life so much easier for that small sacrifice at the start.mantrakid
- Thanks man! As a start I think if C2 pops up on sale again (just missed a 30% off thing!) I might get a license, upgrade to C3 when outprophetone
- I will also probs hit you up via email when my ass gets more in gear with things and I start getting chatty! I appreciate it.prophetone
- prophetone0
@mantrakid, I am looking at maybe grabbing a license for Construct 3 when it drops. Hoping it'll help bridge the gap for me between my designs/ideas and deployment.
I'm waiting for the most part b/c I work on a Mac and wanna keep it that way, with iOS and Android mobile as output.
I realize you use Construct 2 - and v3 will hopefully be doper and OSX compatible. In your opinion, a good investment? Fun to use? Saves you time? etc.
- mantrakid1
Yo Dudes, been lurking for too long, but wanted to show off the new game ive been working on with an amazing posse. I figured this thread was a good place to post it! I'm doing the Art direction and music/sound design.
Check out www.slayawaycamp.com
Or just watch this! :)
Hugs!
- mantrakid0
Just wanted to give you guys an update on this thread since it was sort of the 'origin story' of this silly little game i made. Im so close to finishing the game and just finished working on the Credits screen and am totally humbled by the number of dope QBN peeps who are listed as influential in the credits.
Thanks for the support from almost literally day one, homies. As an update on where I'm at with it all, ive been selling on average $2000 / month while in early access since sept. Total income ignoring the kickstarter has been about $20k since sept. Im hoping once it launches on steam 'for real' (ie out of early access) it will be a thing.
Just got back from PAX in Boston a few weeks ago and peeps went nuts for it. So much shit added since these early days logged in the thread. Almost 100% positive reviews on steam so far.
Im also in very very early talks with publishers about doing console ports and giving them a stake of the sales as compensation. Wish me luck.
Also offered a great job for "As soon as I ship the game" at a new indie studio being started by the man who created Bejewelled.
A humbling, life changing journey this has been. Tx for having my backs dudes.
- couldn't be happier for you dude! it's been a cool ride! happy to of seen it from the start to nearly at the end! (of being made) awesome achievement.cruddlebub
- Well done sir. Happy for you.jtb26
- Congrats!BH26
- Excellent on all accounts mantrakid; QBN is an (often) great community with real talent in various facets. Godspeed.ideaist
- The BEST place on the Internet...ideaist
- ...and the WORST place on the Internet.
; )ideaist - The most lovable bunch of total cunts. :)mantrakid
- monNom0
as I understand it, performance limitations are the ultimate challenge with any game... the Sonic the hedghog wasn't just a great game, it broke ground in performance as well.
Before you switch platforms, you should start removing things from your Construct 2 version to see if you can make it acceptably fast on your target machine. If you can remove the dazzle, but keep the gameplay, then it still might be a great game. If you have a little performance budget left over, see what you can add back in that gives you the biggest bang for your performance buck.
Best of luck.
- cannonball19780
You need to abandon Construct 2 and you need to do that now.
- thats a tough pill to swallow when the games almost done tho. a year of work down the drain!mantrakid
- mantrakid0
tl;ldr.
Wii U port is having some issues.
- mantrakid0
#28 Issues with the Nintendo Wii U.
Posted by Nate Schmold
Firstly, my apologies for the lack of contact, there has been a lot of stuff going on and I have lots to share with you but I've been holding back because a key piece of the puzzle has been the Wii U development and I wanted to be able to give a progress update with that along with the other game dev-related updates. Well, as it turns out there has been some stuff happening behind the scenes and it's an issue big enough that I feel I need to just put out an update focused entirely on the Wii U port of Cosmochoria so you guys know what's going on. To make matters trickier, there are only so many things I am legally allowed to say due to the Non-Disclosure Agreement with Nintendo and their dev team, so I am going to do my absolute best here to fill you in and not get in trouble in the process.
Nate, Whats Up?
A lot of work has been done in the past couple months to ensure that what I was doing for the PC release was also going to work on the Wii U. This meant testing gameplay and performance and other aspects of the games design on the Wii U dev kit to ensure that when it came time to focus my resources 100% on the Wii U port, it would go smoothly.
Simply put: there have been challenges. Challenges in getting my code exported from Construct 2 running optimally on the Dev Kit, Challenges in getting feedback on what improvements will be made to either Construct 2 or to Nintendo's Web Framework in that regard, but most importantly, they are challenges that I have limitations on how to deal with. I've been in steady contact with Nintendo on the issues i've been having and they are quick and helpful to respond, but the suggestions and ideas provided have only gone so far and unfortunately in my testing I was unable to reach a level of performance that I am seeing on even much older PC systems.
Relying on a framework like Construct 2 to make the game, there's only so much I can do. Short of rewriting the game in an engine like Unity or coding by hand, I am inherently tied to the strengths and weaknesses of the platforms Cosmochoria is being developed with. These platforms were chosen (Construct 2 and then Nintendo's Web Framework) because they were easy to learn, easy to use and able to make something happen that I didn't think was possible without them, but from what I've been seeing, it might be a simple matter of a game like Cosmochoria just has too much happening on the screen for this to be a suitable porting solution. The game might just be too big to rely on Nintendo's Web Framework as it is now.
So... What's Next Then?
That said, I'm not giving up. There are quite a few things I can try in regards to 'stripping down' what I'm doing for the PC version that might help with the performance, but I haven't had a chance to test them all out yet. Things like: Reducing the particle effects (things like the sparks that fly from your gun when you shoot, or the sparks that trail after a dragons fireball), Eliminating the accelerated effects (Instead of colouring plants, planets, enemies dynamically, I could experiment with creating sprites for them instead.) There have also been changes to Construct 2's underlying code recently that may have an effect but I have not yet had a chance to test it properly. I wish there was more I could tell about Nintendo's side of things but based on the NDA there's only so much I can say, other than there is very likely nothing that will change from their end to help the situation out.
It's almost entirely up to performance optimizations in Construct 2 and in my own code, which I am worried can only go so far.
I am still going to be working hard on testing, experimenting and generally trying to make sure that if it's possible, it will get done. I am bringing this up now so you guys know where I'm at with it and what I'm dealing with and I want you to know that I would be both heartbroken and crushed to not be able to complete that aspect of the development, and will be utilizing every resource I can to try and make it happen.
The Clock is Ticking
The key factor that adds stress to this whole thing is that it involves *your money*. Because I am on the hook for the Wii U dev kit, that's a HUGE chunk of change that has been set aside from the Kickstarter total which I am obligated to pass to Nintendo for the ability to build a port in the first place. Again, i don't know how much I can say, but unless I return the Wii U dev kit to Nintendo by March, that money must be paid in full. The worry is that I am then out the money for the Development Kit but also completely unable to properly port the game on it due to the technical limitations.
Alternatively, that money could be used for further development of the actual game (for Windows/Mac/Linux), or to put it towards a budget to redevelop the game in another engine entirely (something like Unity as opposed to Construct 2 which could technically solve the performance issues entirely). Of course, the final option would be to refund your money if you are waiting for the Wii U version.
The problem is that if I keep the Dev Kit—due to the cost of it—those other options simply can not happen, there would be no money to refund as it would be in Nintendo's hand everything else budgeted for the Wii U port has already been spent on research, development, testing and development of the current Wii U version.Ok, the Options Again?
We don't have to choose one of these until the new year, but I am laying out the scenarios now so you know what to expect and what is required if it turns out I am unable to get Cosmochoria running smoothly using Construct 2 and the Nintendo Web Framework. If I can get Cosmochoria running well, with a higher frame rate, these options become moot and we just proceed as originally planned.
1. I keep the Dev Kit. I continue working towards a Wii U port in another engine entirely like Unity. This means, straight up, I need to re-code Cosmochoria from scratch. I can reuse the sound, art, music, and some of the core game logic structures, planning, etc, but in terms of programming, the entire thing would need to be re-coded & there is truly no way I can properly estimate on how long this could take or when I could deliver. I only have very basic knowledge and experience with Unity so it would be a learning experience through and through.
2. I cancel the Wii U port, and refund the pledges of those who were wanting a copy of the Wii U port. Unfortunately I would only be able to refund the cost of the game itself ($9/$12/$15 depending on what tier you pledged at), as with many of the physical and creation rewards, I have already paid the costs to manufacture and even in some cases ship the physical rewards. Alternatively, you would also have the option to receive a Steam or Humble Bundle key in lieu of the Wii U key, so you could still get access to the final game (which is still on course for full final release within a few months) if you wanted to keep your money invested in the game.
And So....
That's it. You guys now know what I know and why I'm developing an ulcer from dealing with the potential that a Wii U port might not be able to happen like I originally planned. If you have any feedback, advice or wisdom for me, I would deeply appreciate it. I'll be watching this thread & the forums for comments and would love to chat more if you have questions, etc. Otherwise, I will go back to working as hard as I can on finishing the game so it's ready for the full Steam launch in February 2015. At which point we'll need to make a final decision on what to do about Wii U.
Thank you so much for your continued support.
Hugs & Respect,
Nate
- mantrakid0
Steam Coming Soon page up now! If you've played the Dev version on steam, I'd absolutely love an honest review :)
- mantrakid0
Just submitted my game for review by Valve -- prepping for the official Early Access Launch on September 29th. It's been a crazy ride so far, but shits bout to get real in about a month.
- cruddlebub0
another few things...
a couple of times now the game has graphic drop offs, some of the things disappear: trees, bullets, whole planets...
you can still use them as normal they just vanish.
seems to get quite laggy as you progress on to the second dragon, when lots of robots, aliens, fire is being thrown around.
and finally, its been crashing.
just quits. oh and a red bar keeps appearing on the menu screen as you move the mouse!
other than that i love this game!
have upgraded my gun, health, jetpack twice, have faster growing trees and have a high score of 75k! the most planets saved in one game was 7 i think, but that second dragon just chomps me!
- amazing - thank you for this feedback. All stuff im working on. Huge respect.mantrakid
- cruddlebub - should have resolved a bunch of your items -- there are lots more upgrades now too.mantrakid
- is there an update?cruddlebub
- mantrakid0
Thank you!
- mantrakid0
Awesome dude... that is strange about the bugs (haha bug bugs) but i have a few things I can look at that will hopefully help that stuff if it hasn't been dealt with already. I have a new update thats fairly big and hitting steam pretty soon, ill post on here once it's posted.
- cruddlebub0
ok, so i've been playing more and more over the last few days, upgraded my gun, am saving to upgrade my health, have had on one occasion what i would call either a bug or a glitch where every planet i came across had about 20 beehives and millions of bee's! i managed to get lots of the pyramid defenders out of it but died very fast.
it would happen every time i re-loaded too, so i quit and started the game again, hasn't happened again..,
love this game and can lose hours to it!
- lodef0
whatever just post these where people are paying attention. QBN are supportive of creative endeavours but everyone here aren't exactly active gamers looking for Steam codes.
- how active are you on twitch? People are giving codes away all the time there. reddit, blog comments, youtube, probably more effective.lodef
- ...more effectivelodef
- yeah word, im not active on other users twitch channels but I do run a stream a few times a week.mantrakid
- got a posse growing there, and they appreciate the codes for sure.mantrakid
- Those codes were just for youse guys, im giving a handful out here and there, but will focus once it hits early access.mantrakid
- benfal990
you're shit are really cool Mantrakid. Keep up the good work. Really!
- mantrakid0
no-one? damnn.. :) (bump)