Project Kill Payment
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- e-wo
Oxymoron? Probably.
I (unwisely) joined a project without a contract. I didn't have one signed for my involvement, and now I've found out that the team I joined didn't cover their legal basics with the client.
The client now wants to kill the project and not pay for the last month of milestones. The project manager is passive and doesn't wish to negotiate payment, as he fears an angry client response.
I am in control of the site files. I've stated repeatedly that the files are our leverage.
Were you in my position (and I'd hope you're smart enough not to be), would refuse to deliver the site files until you received payment? Or would you give them up, walk away, and consider it a lesson painfully learned?
- mikotondria30
What do you have to lose, apart from the time and effort you've expended so far ?
Oh no, and angry client response, dear lord - whatever next !?
Angry unpaid developers ?
Try walking out of a restaurant without paying - slightly different contractual arrangement, but the principle is the same.
They're only clients if they pay you, otherwise they're just thieves slipping into the night.
Be nice, be reasonable, use the opportunity to foster and expand relations if you can, but do that while negotiating the timing of them sending you your money.
- prophetone0
tell your project manager he should watch band of brothers for some pointers. sounds like they left you in the jungle as they're taking off in the huey...
- e-wo0
mikotondria, I agree.
The project manager is avoiding a contentious negotiation for fear that the client will get angry with the mutual acquaintance who referred him, and through whom he intends to find future business.
He's protecting future business instead of protecting me. Which makes me consider sitting tight with the files until I get paid.
In any case, I'm not sure how to be nice and civil while effectively leveraging payment. "I keep the files until I'm paid" is, to both the client and project manager, going to raise high drama and possible legal threats.
- send him a bill instead. according to this logic he will recover it later anyway and not throw u under the busprophetone
- if he refuses to cover you, well, that is some shady ass sh*t . refer to the video above for reference.prophetone
- Yeah, bill the project manager. Proceed like a professional (who gets paid). Doesn't sound like a relationship you should maintain anyway.Josev
- maintain anyway.Josev
- mekk0
If they want to kill the project they won't bother not having the files I think. I would move on and hope it wasn't too bad at all - looks like you can't do anything. But I'd keep the files to myself anyway.
Next time, bro!
- monospaced0
The way I see it, if they "kill" the project they don't want the files in the first place. You're in a position to say, "oh, you killed it, so I threw everything out. My bad." I'm joking about the response, but you get the point. Is the client even asking for files?
- whoah, mekk was typing the same thingmonospaced
- first!mekk
- e-wo0
I learned more about it this morning. They're basically firing us from the project, and want to hand over the files to an internal developer. They fully intend to use the site we've already built for them.
So they need the files. They also need my generous cooperation, as the site uses a custom CMS with a development learning curve.
- monospaced0
They want files but don't want to pay for the work that went into creating them.
- monospaced0
Solution: hand over files, and let them know in a contract that your "generous cooperation" will cost $XXX per hour, where XXX = the rate you expect for your work.
- at least moving forward you can cover your ass, and if they don't want to pay that fee, they don't have to use youmonospaced
- capn_ron0
Do not hand over those files! Why would you be polite and generous when they want to kill the project and still get the files? No way would I ever hand them off. Let there internal guy rebuild it and figure out that CMS. Please tell them that you will hand over the files when payment is made for that time.
- I think he covered this above... about not burning bridgesmonospaced
- fuck bridges if they've not paid for work already done23kon
- if u got someone to paint your house then decided the colour was 'meh' would you say "see ya"23kon
- how come he has to keep a non paying bridge? they already burnt it down anyway!capn_ron
- and tell the painter you were not going to pay him as you didnt really want/need the work done23kon
- agree with cap, whats the point of a bridge that leads to nowhere.Al_dizzle
- 23kon0
Like the good ol' capn says, don't hand over the files until they've paid you.
When their internal developer tells the powers that be how long it will take him (or anyone else) to re-create what has already been done then they will pay you.
Going forward, make sure you get a contract for the co-operation they need you for and make sure you bill them for every single second of every single minute keeping a log of all help time.
If anything is going to take you time (to create new bits or whatever) then make sure you give them an idea of what this time will be and quote for it and get them to OK this.
- capn_ron0
Sorry, but why are you concerned about not burning a bridge that doesn't want to pay? Seems to me that they are the ones burning the bridge. What part of them not paying is good for the relationship between client and designer? I say no files should be handed over until payment is made. The job is way past being polite anymore.
- when I say you, i am just talking to anyone in general.capn_ron
- prophetone0
now that they are firing you, and I assume the PM as well, what does he have to say about this now? still hoping to maintain a relationship w/ this client?
anyway, if they refuse to pay you for your hard work thus far that is insult enough, not to mention unprofessional. to fire you and insist on receiving the project files is downright hilarious.
they clearly know that what you have done so far is valuable to them if they still want those source files.
just send them a nice little bill and indicate that the files will be provided to them when payment has been received.
simple.
- true... the designer can't be the only one fucked by not having a contractmonospaced
- cannonball19780
I'm sorry, but fuck this. There is being cooperative and professional. Then there is standing your ground and refusing a dick up your ass.
- GeorgesIV0
Honestly, why should they pay you,
you're the one who has done much of the work,
what make you think you deserve to be paid for your time,
fuckn designers, and their ego!!/S
- sandbag0
There is not even a question here. No files until they pay for them. Quite simple and fair.
- monospaced0
Who's responsible for paying you, the "team" you joined (that hired your, I presume), or the "client?" If the PM doesn't want to negotiate payment, can you really go around them to the client and ask for money after the fact?
- omg0
Tell them they have to come to your house if they want the files because, unless they pay you... you're not going to work on the project any longer. Which includes sending files via email.
I also think its better to burn bridges with those who plan on fucking you. Only whores worry about burning bridges with people whose business is fucking you.
- i_monk0
If you don't have a contract saying you get paid for work, then your client doesn't have a contract saying they get what you worked on.
- likewise, the client has no right to the work produced without a contractmonospaced
- which is what you wrote *facepalmmonospaced
- e-wo0
I've been being paid by the PM.
I'm not into sidestepping him to negotiate with the client, but I could withhold the site files from the PM until paid. A more nuclear option.
- ohhhhhsnap0
Great advice from QBN
but i'm wondering... why no agreement if you don't mind sharing?- he assumed the team he joined had a contract in placemonospaced
- ahohhhhhsnap