Doing work for friends
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- BUNN
I'm talking design stuff here but obviously other work is as relevant.
Just wondered what peoples thoughts were on charging (mates rates?Discount?) and dealing with and demands/changing things.
I've had both positive and (currently) negative experiences and curious to know if anyones outright stopped doing work for friends due to bad experiences ordo you just suck it up cos they're yr friend?
- whereRI0
after each time I say never again, then I do it again because I cant say no and its generally a nightmare.
- d_rek0
Depends on what you consider a 'friend'.
A lifelong friend of mine - probably my one and only true best friend i've ever had.... GAYYYYYYY - is a musician and has floated around in various bands for the last dozen years or so. I've always done design work for him and his bands completely pro-bono (posters, logos, t-shirts, stickers, etc.) and I would never even consider charging him. In return I can usually get free admission to most if not all of his shows and he's usually good for a few drinks too.
Now if we're talking 'aquaintances' here... well, I usually just try to not do any work for them since they almost never want to pay what the work is worth and rarely ever appreciate it anyway.
- BaskerviIle0
I have three approaches to this:
1) I sometimes do work for friends family etc as a favour, I don't charge anything at all but get complete creative control. This way, I do it how I want and potentially get something portfolio worthy and they know from the outset that they don't get to get involved creatively.2) I don't work for friends or family professionally.
3) I'll do freelance work for friends of friends, but in this case I'll charge full rates.
So either free or full price, but never mates rates or anything similar.
- I do number 1, but they always forget they had no control and start whingin'whereRI
- ApeRobot0
Never professionally.
- ESKEMA0
I try to avoid it as much as possible because it always ends with frustration. But it ends up happening again and again.
My advice: If you charge, then you'll have to do whatever he wants, even if it goes against everything you stand for. (or you'll roughen your friendship)
If you do pro-bono, you have the favor leverage, that gives you a little more control.Either way, be prepared for serious headaches.
(occasionally there's the friends who let you do whatever you want and trust your judgement completely, but that doesn't last long, and they'll have more and more suggestions of their own over time..)
Clients suck. Friend or no friend.
- randommail0
Clients are clients. Anyone who wants to be a client of mine gets a formal RFP response and then a contract if we proceed.
But I do give a whopping 20 to 25% discount to friends and family. If that's not enough for them to be happy to move forward, their intention was to try to take advantage of you, right from the beginning.
- teh0
or family.
- CALLES0
if you do dont let them hoover. it will drive you crazy giving you directions that they know nothing about
- monospaced0
I keep doing it even though it's never rewarding. I offer to design for free with the understanding that the money saved will be spent on better production, and then they cheap on that too. It really grinds my gears. A current friend/client just tacked on a couple of more deliverables without even asking me first, they just took my idea and started telling me how good it would look on things when I designed them. On the occasions when I've given the "friend discount" I still get resistance when payment time comes, and then the inevitable "I'll pay you with [insert something they can do]" shit. I want to do work for friends, but after this point I think I'll have to just start treating them like paying clients.
Another annoying thing about friends is that they think a chat window is a good place to share their design briefs, deadlines and revisions requests. Please. I close those windows; anything you type into an IM is considered disposable when it comes to business (to me). If you want me to take something seriously, take the damn time to write a real email with a relevant subject, especially if it's important stuff.
- utopian0
work for friends = bad
- SlashPeckham0
never unless you're in a position to do it for free and thus have creative autonomy.
- Free doesn't mean that! I learned the hard way many times.monospaced
- scare them off - tell them you have a vision...SlashPeckham
- bjladams0
friends and family gave me the platform to start my own business.
it just comes down to good communication.
a few years later, i'm still doing work for a lot of those same people, and we've helped each other grow.
- fourth0
It really depends. I echo what others have said: a bad client is a bad client.
Stay away from friends that have their "baby project" and little to no money. They are going to be way too controlling and you won't make any money from it. If your friend/family has a legitimate business and they understand the value of design then go for it.
But for the most part I just steer clear. I tell them I'm too busy. The last few projects I took on for friends wasted a lot of my time and my ego took a beating. I had one friend, a dj who claimed to be flying out to do a 6 hour set in Ibiza, who needed a logo desperately and we agreed upon a trade. I worked hard on it and sent him the first round of comps and he basically ignored me. Obviously we were on different pages but he couldn't even work with me and tell me why he didn't like it. His non-response was basically saying "that sucked, you suck". On top of that a couple of mutual friends have been acting weird towards me and I'm pretty sure he showed them "my crappy work". The funniest part is he never flew out to Spain, and he never played that 6 hour set he claimed to have.
- necromation0
I do, but i have a "if you don't pay i can bang your girlfriend" cause.
SO outta this... One i only work with friends who's girlfriend is hot and two they ALWAYS pay.
- monospaced0
One of my friends hired me to create an ad for his family's business. The written contract was for a single ad for about $400. I followed his design brief perfectly and provided 5 concepts. He wasn't happy with them and send me his vision, which was basically a rip from an old Apple iMac ad. I reluctantly executed on this and we finished off a final ad.
A few weeks later I saw them printing and running the rejected concepts and posting them on Facebook with the line "Check out our new ad campaign." When I tried to explain they only paid for a single ad, they argued. I had to fight pretty hard, and nearly lose a friend, to get paid for the remaining (rejected) ads they ran. Friends just don't understand.
- autoflavour0
only way i work for friends is for free..
never for money.if its a job that requires money, then i dont do it.
- if only because when there is no money, there is no right of reply.. i have complete creative controlautoflavour
- ✓SlashPeckham
- detritus0
Some friends yes, some friends no.
One friend recently wanted me to redo their ecommerce site.. there's no way in G-d's great Earth I'll have anything to do with it, so I've dropped him a few Shopify-like options and told him to do it the fuck himself.
Other friends I'm really keen to work with, some of whom I've accomplished the best things in my life.
*shrugs*
diffr'nt strokes..
- Oh, and charges? Full whack or nothing. Mate's Rates always get abused, charity and professionalism not.detritus
- Not to say I don't do stuff cheap for friends, I just don't start out with that out front, in mind.detritus
- difference between working with and working forautoflavour
- SunSunSun0
Free for close friends or not at all.
If they're good friends they'll appreciate you for it anyway and it should feel good helping them out.
- aaux0
Dang, wish I could but I'm super slammed right now.
- CanHasQBN0
I'm SO lucky I don't have these problems!
...because I have no friends.