work ≠ personal satisfaction
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- DaveO0
Yeah that's massive Nonce Sense. I love it when something goes off the way I planned it to, a shoot, video, whatever. I even designed a birthday card for someone today and was fucking stoked because it looked cool. Get some new friends!
- Josev0
This thread reminded of this recent opinion piece on the Print Mag blog by Paula Scher:
http://imprint.printmag.com/desi…AIGA is dropping their traditional award shows for a single show called "justified" which is based on client briefs/business metrics.
- or based on this: "Entries will be judged based on their design attributes and also how well a short case is made on their effectiveness in a clear, compelling and accessible way."Josev
- effectiveness in a clear, compelling and accessible way."Josev
- I saw this. And... holy shit - if this thread goes down that road...jtb26
- I was surprised that there wasnt more discussion about this here or in other forumsJosev
- Because I think mostly - designers don't give as much a fuck about what 'famous' designers think, as famous designers think they do.jtb26
- designers think they do.
jtb26 - she made a few good points. But overall I felt it was a little out of touch.jtb26
- yep, we should split this off to another thread—we read it too and think she was a bit offhargbine
- I thought she was off, too. But it is interesting to think about how the industry is changing.Josev
- hargbine0
this is why I ♥ QBN:
comradery and bitch slaps of reality
- or if we're passionate about proofreading : see also CAMARADERIEhargbine
- this is actually one of the better topics I've seen on here.jtb26
- yeah, I think you and me are completely on the same page, and there's a slice ofhargbine
- a much larger debate...or at least many assumptions about creative work in the world todayhargbine
- dijitaq0
when i first started working, i had an great art director. old-school guy and very knowledgeable. taught me a lot about working in the industry. so when i felt i wanted going freelance, i spoke to him. he asked me "do you know what good design is?". he basically laughed at every answer i gave him. his replay was simply "good design is the ones that get paid".
so yeah, personal satisfaction sometime takes a back seat.
- Peter0
Even Pentagram and the other High & Mighty Altars of Design agencies that you and I like so much spend the majority of their time, effort, energy and creativity on (at best) mundane tasks.
It doesn't matter who you are or what you do; business is for serving somebody else. No matter how famous or respected you might think you are, is or will become. It is not your personal playground. That is where I agree with your boss & cd - and like to add that if you can at least consider yourself lucky enough to have been raised in a society that afforded you the environment where you were able to shape the direction of career based on your personal interest, you can be happy.
Short: Expect and prepare for long runs of struggles, enjoy the occasional islands of personal satisfaction in between, and have a drink when it's all said and done.
- hargbine0
@peter agree on the drinking part. and about the islands of satisfaction in a sea of hard work.
[pours a glass of whisky]
I'm not saying that that design work (the results) should be personal expression or a personal playground.
But I think that the creative connections (personal) you come up with through the design process (univeral & personal methodologies) in the service of your client (their business and objectives), is ultimately, a personal endeavor.
...
I get the service industry part, and coming up with efficiencies based on client constraints via design is awesome. Strive to do your best for all of your clients within their limits and yours.
But giving away logos no better than clipart because you're just pulling something out the archives, and continually making excuses for disrespectful clients is not "the Business of Design".
That's where I'm calling bullshit.
How can you call that design?
Don't slam your designers for trying to implement basic design strategies for projects and call it "work".
- Peter0
Well there you go. With the (personal). Again: it's never personal. if the person that ultimately pays your bill is after those clipart, not our own ideas about good design, then that's what the billpayer shall have.
You can try to fight that, and kudos to you for demanding more satisfaction, but after a decade in you'll have the experience of knowing that most of the time the billpayer often asks but rarely wants what's ultimate. ...often regardless of the logic and reason you present behind your actions.
The Business of Design? Any business is business. Whether finance, pushing coke or pushing pixels.
- _me_0
i always make logos 10% smaller and text 1pt smaller - so the client in their wisdom, "can you make make it bigger by 10% and 1pt size bigger? ". Beat them at their own game. It gives me much satisfaction.
- biusness0
Peter Saville (of all people) talks about work being 'for others, to others'. Even Sagmeister is very clear about his work serving a clients needs, not his own.
The rise of design magazines/design awareness in the last 10/20 years gives all young students the idea their personal vision is of absorbing interest to the world. Obviously that's not true, I'm fine with that.
"Creativity" that has no direction can be a pain in the fucking arse; I actually enjoy the constraints of a client, I have no personal creative axe to grind.
Your boss sounds like a bit of a jaded prick but in essence it's not a terrible mantra.
Design ≠ art.
...and remember getting a client to buy into a braver, smarter, better idea is PART of your job. Go forth!
- PS. I would guess the number of 'satisfied' people is higher in the design world than the art world, after allbiusness
- toe_knee0
sounds like op works in a production house and not a creative agency?
- +1animatedgif
- called a creative studio, but unfortunately act like a production househargbine
- i_monk0
All that said, some clients are just crap and demand crap work. They let their marketing managers art direct, creative direction comes from committees upstairs instead of the agency, they don't know their own branding, they want to do whatever the competition is doing, they think more is better, etc. Unfortunately since the US sank the world into a recession, agencies and studios can't be choosy about their clients and shit floats to the top of the pile.
- ApeRobot0
Art director is shit, writer is shit, director is shit, ceo is shit.
Team is awesome. Unfortunately "Team" doesn't own the studio.Un-qualified people taking the decisions, ruining the projects due to their shitty tastelessmoneyhungrybitches choices.
They are not making it because they love it, they just sell a product.
- hargbine0
@ i_monk , ApeRobot
That's exactly where we seem to be right now.
Deal with what you gotta deal with to stay afloat as a studio, and ride the highs and lows as a designer, but don't elevate shitty work, and shitty process (or lack of any process) into some grand, seasoned business strategy.
Admit that your just paying the bills so we can all just do the grunt work and focus on making things better and getting better clients.
- breadlegz0
I guess it depends on the level you are at.
If you're a mac monkey slave doing whatever the clients get you to do, you'll probably not enjoy the work you do.
If you're a high end creative with an established style that attracts people to come to you and pay you to do what you do ... you'll probably love the work that you do.
- bjladams0
why are you there? if you don't agree with the management, and (i assume) don't feel satisfied with what you're delivering... why do you keep going in every morning? if it's just for the paycheck... i guess that's the same philosophy as the bosses have... what's stopping you from moving on?
- ApeRobot0
I love my job, and basicaly, i do what i always wanted to do.
I'm just working for douchebags, that don't know what they are talking about.Things are changing during the years, but sometimes, it's not fast enough.
There is not much company out here that do what we do and moving in an another country is not an option right now.