payment
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- ben_0
Yeah, unless you have a contract stipulating otherwise this agency is going to pay you when they say they will (or worse, when they feel like it). You have a contract for things as mundane as your cell phone and domain names, you should make sure to have something for how you make a living.
Speaking from having been on both sides, we make every attempt to pay net 30 over here, but I'm not going to lie, there's times when cash flow is an issue for everyone including agencies. Talk with them to see if you can't get it a bit earlier, realizing you're asking them for a favour (provided you didn't have a contract), despite what some may tell you there are actually a handful of good people working in AP.
Or, it could be a total nightmare. Get a contract, good luck.
- jamble0
Did you not have a contract with them?
You should at least have that, check out http://docpool.co if you need an idea of a sample contract doc for the future.
There's no excuse for a freelancer to not be collecting your money on time. Cashflow is a kick in the bollocks at the best of times when you're self employed so set your T&C's and stick to them because you're only doing yourself damage. They don't care if your invoice sits at the bottom of the pile.
- A contract?! I can't believe nobody mentioned that until the second page.monospaced
- Can't be reiterated enough :)fyoucher1
- fyoucher10
Been through this many times (might even be with your same client) and couldn't agree more with Continuity.
Fact is, just don't work WITHOUT A CONTRACT and make sure it states payment terms and late fees. I have clients that I've started out with a very long time ago without using contracts and almost all of them have run into issues where they want to pay late, especially this time of year, even with clients that I literally have over 100 projects with.
Whenever you get a new client, make sure you have a contract (signed) BEFORE you start any work. No matter if it's a client who you think is so big, that you probably won't have to deal with it. Just don't take the chance. You'll spend long hours tracking late invoices, etc. Major headaches.
Finance department doesn't care about you. They need to pay you as late as possible in order to maximize cash flow. You'll get the "lost check", "corporate policy is that we pay vendors when client pays us", "looking into it", "we didn't get that invoice", "oh you forgot to fill out our new vendor policy (90 days later)", and just about any other excuse to delay payment. I've gotten so much BS from finance over the years, I know what to expect.
The sad part is that it's likely you work with really cool people who have nothing to do with paying you but finance screws the biz relationship up.
Always always have your own cash flow though, so you don't have to be in those situations where you absolutely need the loot.
Good luck.
- JSK0
For any big companies, there are vendor payment process in place. It is very hard to change the process for individual freelancers. It creates more work for them to do 50% up front because on their balance sheet, they need to match it with hours or work performed.
You could do staggered payment which is billing 25% on 1/4 the way and etc.
Also depends on if you were there as a full time freelance, flat rate or hourly etc
- Continuity0
My advice: learn this lesson, and starting with your next client/assignment, clearly indicate your payment terms in your contract (Net 14 or Net 30, whichever works for you ... I prefer Net 14), as well as any sort of deposit. Include this in your contract, and repeat it on your invoices.
If a client isn't willing to sign off on good freelance business practise, refuse the work and move on, cos they'll try to screw you.
- Continuity0
'I asked for deposit, they say, they are big company and they dont [sic] do that'
Which is utter, utter rubbish on their part. It's a standard thing for freelancers. That should have been your first red flag, right there.
'You really are at their disposal. Unfortunately, especially in this economy, many companies are on the "pay when paid" model. Meaning that they don't pay anyone until their client pays them.'
With all due respect to you, formed, so is this. Your own suppliers as a freelancer – which is to say, your phone company, electricity provider, internet supplier, et cetera – all expect to be paid on the date indicated on their invoices to you, right? So it should sodding well be when we're in the supplier position. If a company can't pay for the work when it is contracted, and can only pay when they get paid, they shouldn't be contracting work out in the first place, and freelancers should be giving them a wide berth.
- JSK0
If you are struggling and worried about getting paid 3 months later, you are doing this whole freelance thing wrong.
- He should be worried. 3 months is too long, and he's an individual with limited resources, not an agency with deep pockets.Continuity
- its a big amount, im fine with freelance
senseg - I am talking about cash flow.JSK
- freelance is same as any other business, you need to have cash flow for at least 6 months in bank.JSK
- flashbender0
Use profanity and threaten violence
- 23kon0
"they are big company .... and i shouldnt have worried about it."
It's more likely that a big company will screw you over and never give you the cash or end up folding themselves. Giants are falling all the time.
- senseg0
i think its a common problem for freelancers. you work nights, and wait months to get payed. Companies have no respect to us.
I asked for deposit, they say, they are big company and they dont do that, and i shouldnt have worried about it.
- formed0
Guessing there is no contract and no terms stipulated, or he/she'd have replied with an answer to everyone's question.
Get 50% up front, 50% on delivery, break it down more for larger projects (30/30/30/10).
You really are at their disposal. Unfortunately, especially in this economy, many companies are on the "pay when paid" model. Meaning that they don't pay anyone until their client pays them.
Sometimes, especially when involving huge companies or the gov't, this can be a long period of time.
Advice - I'd keep being persistent, ask to talk to the accounting personnel and the chekc signer. Often times, in large companies, you'll get the pm or the person you are working with will just forward on the invoice to the accounting dept and forget about it (and the accounting dept. pays on their schedule, as they don't give an ass about you, they just want to keep their books clean).
Good luck. Live and learn. Be polite, patient, professional and you'll get paid.
- maikel0
long story short:
- you can wait and eventually do more work for that agency
- you can threaten with legal action, you will lose a client and you will see your money more or less after 3 months anyway.as somebody else said already, don't even waste energy. Get going because they will pay (eventually).
- huegelbonn0
In France it is totally normal, that the payment target is 90 days.
The government changed the law, to shorten it, but it is still usual.
- Continuity0
The long and the short of it is: if you indicated your payment T&Cs on a piece of paper that your client put their signature to, that means they agree to those Ts&Cs, regardless of their supposed payment policy. Failure to respect what was signed off constitutes a breach of contract, for which you have the right to pursue remedy.
- Continuity0
On your invoice or contract, did you include and terms and conditions that indicate that payment is due Net 14 days or Net 30 days from receipt of invoice?
If so – and there are signatures to back it up – get on it, and turn the screws. If, after your indicated due date has passed, send them a statement of payment due. If that doesn't work, start thinking about a collection agency, especially if they signed off on your payment terms. This will remind them that fucking around with their suppliers' payments after they've signed a contract can have unpleasant practical consequences, in the form of negative credit reporting.
- TheBlueOne0
fuck you, pay me.
- SunSunSun0
Yeah this happens a lot dude.
The best thing is to find out who does the paying and ask them as a favour to please pay you as early as possible. Explain you're a freelancer and really need the money as soon as possible.
If he/she is a bitch they'll just ignore you and enjoy their power trip, go home to their generic accountant apartment, watch shit tv all evening and never give it another thought.
If they are a human being with any soul they will hopefully try and help you out. But from experience, once you've told them your situation there's not much else you can do without a contract.
- There are no souls to be found in account departments.maikel
- Attempting to appeal to human emotions in business is utterly pointless.Continuity
- senseg0
its a big agency in LA, working in entertainment.
- maikel0
Senseg, give us some more details. Location matters as in terms of law and regulations.
However, if they say 90 days is because you are not likely to see the money before that day -but normally means at least 120 days.
If you are in digital and you have access, you can pull the plug until payment -or even more radical, overlay a massive banner saying that the job hasn't been paid for.
Making their business awkward and/or public embarrassment works great as the harm you can do to their client base is likely more expensive than whatever job you may have done for them.
I'd say that a polite email explaining that you will unplug them if they do not pay as agreed -giving a week's notice- is appropriate to most countries.
Mind you that if you don't have the payment agreement in written, you are not just fucked, you are utterly fucked.
If you work in printed media or you have given all your deliverables already you can either wait or go for the small claims tribunal (or equivalent for non-brit countries).
-Lastly, a piece of advise. If you want to work as a supplier, you will have to get used to this things.
- senseg0
i dont really want to wait, what i can do?