Ban the Burqa?
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- pr20
if you want to be considered a 3rd world country like Taliban's Afghanistan - then go ahead impose the ban. But then stop bullshiting about "liberty, equality, fraternity."
- Invalid0
i've not read all the posts, so not sure if this has been stated here already, but it's important to note that the burqa is not dictated by islam at all. it's purely a cultural thing and is by choice. if that choice is enforced upon them by their husbands, then they need a marriage councilor not a ban.The Quran states that men and women should dress modestly and not flaunt themselves about.
There are more specific dress codes for when a person is in the state of prayer, but neither the burqa, niqab, nor hijab are explicitly detailed anywhere as strict day to day attire.
i think we're all aware of the underlying issues that spark this sort of ban. in essence it's completely stupid. if someone wants to cover their face, legs, arms, head, hands, whatever it may be, they can go right ahead and do it. civil liberties.
- airey0
and i'll also reiterate that the burqa is the body covering.
the niqab is the actual face vail that seems to piss everybody off.
i realise it's only the actual name of the thing so why be a stickler when telling people what they should and shouldn't do.
- ESKEMA0
If you go to a country, respect it's laws. Don't impose yours.
France has every right to ban the fuck they want, as muslim countries have their own laws (much more strict!). I don't think I could go to Afghanistan and build a Church (with bells) these days, or my girlfriend walk around in a bikini. I accept that, it's their laws.
They should respect France's will also.Today we are talking Niqab / Burka, last month was Minarets, tomorrow will be another topic.
If I go to live in another country, I should adapt to it, it would be my choice to be there, and they would be nice to let me stay.
Every country has the right to impose their laws on it's ground, if you don't like it, GTFO. You have the right to leave any civilized country to where you see fit.
- Read post aboveMakeBelieve
- I guess you haven't visited a Muslim country then?MakeBelieve
- Amicus0
Universal Liberty is by definition impossible.
If I'm free to cover my face I'm impinging on other's freedom to view my face.
Of course, this is bringing logic to an almost farcical level, but in a free society shouldn't we have the right to see someone's face for many reasons – communication via body language, security and law enforcement probably being the major ones. Whether consciously or subconsciously, we all read a person's body language to help us determine their mood, whether they are telling us the truth, or for subtle clues as to whether they like us or not.
- DrBombay0
Continuing, any business should have the right to deny them access for security reasons. I can see why a business owner may not want a guy in a balaclava in their shop, so this should be treated the same.
- DrBombay0
This is as stupid as banning saggy pants.
- I think they tried to do that in Louisiana or Miami?WrappedInBooks
- Flint, MItechnikiller
- MakeBelieve0
Many people came to the west as it represented freedom of faith and practice. America is the land of the free, is it not? When western democracies begin to impose totalitarian and dictatorship style policies on minorities, something really rotten is going on.
The west should remain proud of its history and retain the banner of tolerance and openness, it is this very notion that allows many western Muslims to claim that they can be "more Muslim in the west than in any Muslim country" - due to the repressive nature of many so-called 'Muslim' countries. The key words here are 'choice' and 'freedom' and this what allows us to be whatever we want to be. That is worth fighting for.
Another good article:
Veiled Threats:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes…
- Projectile0
I know:
Ban the French culture that bans Muslim people from banning women from showing their faces.
- Ramanisky20
Well there you have it ... France did it
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/eu…and right away the Eiffel Tower is evacuated
- Hombre_Lobo0
Im not a fan of religion. Causes too many problems.
- not strictly true, im a fan of Buddhism.Hombre_Lobo
- it's not really a religion thoughset
- Hombre_Lobo0
before i get attacked by close minded, defensive bumbaclarts (yeh thats right, bumbaclarts!!) -
Religion is fantastic for teaching a moral code to live by, no doubt about it. Its great for creating communities which makes people feel safe. But its the history of bloodshed and the minority of todays extreme religiousness that grinds my gears.
If it makes you 1% more happy, good for you, enjoy it! :)
- and the ignorance of science, that REALLY grinds my gears.Hombre_Lobo
- " Its great for creating communities which makes people feel safe" good onejaylarson
- PIZZA0
I'd rather see a ban on men wearing fucking flip flops to work. You're not on the fucking beach now mate.
- I'm with this.DrBombay
- fuck that! I don't, but so what if I do? unless it's a client facing environment, who cares?Projectile
- It's 92 and humid out. What, do I work in a bank now? Suck my pedicured toes bitches.kona
- i'm with konan.iCanHasQBN
- set0
Hombre_Lobo
We could have all of that without the seperation, fear and 'taking power from the peopleness' that religion causes.
You don't need religion to have moral code and community.
- my sentiments exactly :)
On my wall i have a a lovely almost bible-esque piece of literature outlining good morals to live by.Hombre_Lobo - to live by. No need for religion in my life.
Thanks set :)Hombre_Lobo
- my sentiments exactly :)
- ali0
True Amicus.
In all different societies in all different ways lines are drawn for the good of the people. In the end you can't please everyone, usually the majority. Those societies choose it to be right or wrong and the line is drawn.In the end it is just cloth but it is the meaning and purpose behind the cloth that should be behind the decision.
What is the meaning of a burqa without a sandstorm?
It is the power it takes from the majority of women who are forced to wear the garments that strip them of identity, expression, body language and forces them into seclusion and limiting their interaction and communication with others. Leading a double-life... would these women really want to be cut off from the world?
- Hombre_Lobo0
HERE WE GO!!!!
It's very simple.
You should respect the laws of the land in which you are in, religion or no religion.
I get particularly pissed of when some extreme Islamics demand Islamic only communities and ask for changes in society becuase they say that "British culture prevents them from practicing their religion".
Quite frankly, go home then.
I wouldn't dream of going to another country and then complain about their laws and culture. And if I did? I would get locked up and laughed at.
British politicians are far too soft, in relation to my reference above.
I have Islamic friends who share this opinion mainly because the koran teaches people to respect the laws of the land they are in.
I'm not saying people should never speak out against laws being passed. Im saying non-native immigrants should adhere to the laws regardless of their religion or go home.
Obviously religious history shapes the law, but it shapes it within it's own culture specific to it's own people. Travellers and immigrants have no place influencing this.
- In your racist view you forget that many Muslims were BORN in your country thus they are the natives!!!!pr2
- racist view? wow you know me so well.
They may be natives, but why should their mother-land culture affect the culture of the land they move to?Hombre_Lobo - culture be of more importance than the culture of the land they moved to?Hombre_Lobo
- are you going to be the one policing what belongs under motherland culture and what not?pr2
- right so your saying that if a mass migration of millions of people entered say the USA, making americans the minority, its ok for all the laws to be changed to suit the migrated majority and to better reflect their culture and not the culture of people who have lived far longer?
i dont agree with that.Hombre_Lobo - its ok for all the laws to be changed to suit the migrated majority and to better reflect their culture and not the culture of people who have lived far longer?
i dont agree with that.Hombre_Lobo - of people who have lived far longer?
i dont agree with that.Hombre_Lobo
- Hombre_Lobo0
RAF I applaud your opinion in this situation. Very well put.
- sigg0
There are bigger issues than wasting time banning something that less than 10% of a small minority wear.
(pulling the 10% from the previous page)
If the cops need to see your face, you're getting a drivers license, or your entering a place of business and you won't take it off then BAM, taser time. Then the videos get posted to YouTube, then the YouTube videos get posted in some "fucking cops" thread, people go ape shit over cops and BAM, the circle of life.
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- spraycanII0
Ban clothes. simple.