Israel attacks aid ship!
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- inv0
- DPS0
@ Makebelieve and others
You wanted to see the other side of the story, from someone here and I gave it to you.
In response to your comments and attitude of superiority regarding your visits to Gaza and seeing how the Palestinians live, I was in the West Bank last weekend visiting Ramallah, Bethlehem and Aida refugee camp. I also had a very close activist friend who was killed by the IDF in Gaza. I am not a blinkered idiot. I have read extensively on the conflict, I try to engage in the issues facing Israel, the Palestinians and the route to peace in the most logical, unbiased and unprejudiced manner. Members of my family here work in coexistence projects and I hope to do the same in the future.
In a nutshell, the situation is Gaza is being perpetuated by the Arab states to attack Israel, the Palestinians are pawns, nothing more nothing less. If you really feel this is not true I suggest that you take off your blinkers and examine the history of both the Palestinian people, how Israel became a state and the manner in which the Arab states do nothing for their Palestinian brethren whilst shouting a lot about what Israel does wrong. Next time you feel like sightseeing why don't you take a trip to one of the many more Palestinian refugee camps in Jordan, Syria or Lebanon if you wanna see how they are treated by their friends (or take a look at the events of Black September)
Ramallah is a vibrant, developing city, the West Bank is beginning to turn the corner economically and moving forwards. You know why? Cause they don't have a terrorist organisation, with one of their main mandates the destruction of Israel, elected to run their territory.
I want the Palestinians to achieve a proper nation state more than you can possibly imagine as do the vast majority of Israelis... it is not your family having to go to the army for 3 years of the their lives, it is not you who has to live in fear of Hamas, Hisbollah, Iran and many more. But the only conditions in which there can be a state is one in which Israel's security is asssured.
You see this conflict as one between Israel and the Palestinians but it is not. It is Israel trying to fight for it's survival against people who want every Jew here in the sea (and it sounds like quite a few people in this forum, as everywhere, would happily assist with that) How do you expect me as a Jew, as a partial Israeli, and as someone who just wants to be able to live in peace to feel with the things that are said on this board?
I pray that we can have peace in our days and I hope that some of the energy and passion that is displayed on this board can be directed towards that aim, not perpetuating this conflict.
- there's a whole lot of truth in here..my buddy at work here is palestinian and has said much the same...exador1
- but......it doesn't change the fact that israel (as a country) has done and is doing some heinous things dude...exador1
- but truth is truth...the sad fact is that most or all of the arab countries nearby have fucked the palestinians harder as hard as israel....if not harder...exador1
- israel...
(i hate having to click to the next box to carry on a sentence)exador1
- toe_knee0
To add to the fact that they boarded a ship on international water. The Israelis are also holding the crew against their will and are charging them with entering Israel illegally. Which is complete bullshit as they weren't in Israel, the Israeli navy brought them into Israel against their will.
- BaskerviIle0
while we're all linking to wikipedia. An interesting read:
- rupedixon0
Just learned that a friend of mine was on the ship that was attacked - I knew she was part of the convoy, not that actual ship.
It turns out her name is not on the list of UK passport holders given to the authorities, so she is in effect missing....
- Wow, I hope she is OK!inv
- ...! hope you hear from/about her soonbigtrickagain
- added_valium0
I'm an Israeli. There, I've gone and said it.
I can't express how depressed this whole incident makes me. I condemn the way Israel chose to act, and am deeply sorry for the lives lost and the unnecessary violence involved from both sides. I'm sure this could have been solved in a more peaceful way, but both sides decided not to try this route and instead chose aggressive action.
I agree with many of the statements in this thread and wish things had turned out differently. It definitely is a sad state of affairs. I think criticism of Israel's actions is justified and can only hope that those who criticize Israel do the same when faced with the brutal actions of the US and its allies in the Middle East, as well as other's actions such as Hamas and Turkish government.
And as for those who posted antisemitic racist comments - f*** you!
- Please don't mistake criticism of Israeli political policies with anti-semitism. One does not equal the other, for Christ's sake.Continuity
- also, I don't believe anti-semiticism can be called racism. There isn't an Israeli 'race' or ethnic group, as such. It's all religion.Continuity
- there are a few borderline remarks here, even if they're under the guise of sarcasm...added_valium
- ...and I think the comparison to the Nazis is unacceptable. As horrible as oppression may be, it still isn't exterminationadded_valium
- actually...it sort of is....it's just taking the long-view..innit... they stay and starve?exador1
- YES, your "people" are trying to exterminate palestinians. The "violent animals".Pixter
- pascii0
it all started way back. and it is a history of power and brutality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uni…- it started way before then... like around 3000 years before.Amicus
- but after WWII, the shit started to smokepascii
- the 3000 years ago shit is a myth. Israelis and Palestinians didnt have a beef until the occupations began in the late 40s. See documentary 'Occupation 101'madmanGerald
- cannonball19780
pre-emptive maneuvers under the guise of defense. sound familiar?
- Clinton? When he sent cruise missiles to kill Osama and missed? And pissed him off?JSK
- JSK0
Before we bash Israel for it's past and present, lets be objective on what transpired. Nothing is ever black and white. Except death. Its wrong how ever you see it.
- JSK0
Speaking of operations in foreign territory...
U.N. Official to Ask U.S. to End C.I.A. Drone Strikes
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/2…
- georgesIII0
JSK, no matter what you said,
They had no right to attack the boat,
the float was still in international water and it is considered piracy to do what they did,
now you can twist and turn the readiness of the activist,
The idf is still wrong, they are trigger happy pigs (here I said it) and should stop getting a blank pass to do the fuck they want.- They also boarded 5 other ships without incident.JSK
- So because no-one pulled the trigger on those five other boats, makes it OK for Israel to board any vessel in international waters?Continuity
- ... waters?Continuity
- No one pulled trigger or no one attacked them? Its just how see say it.JSK
- BTW dont think I am agreeing with what Israel has done by boarding in international waters.JSK
- Just keep an open mind. Everyone is always trying to play one side or another.JSK
- I tried to keep an open mind for years. I've seen enough.Continuity
- But thats what makes you different from radicals.JSK
- ukit0
It depends on whether you think Israel should have the right to intercept any boat they want, whether it's in their territory or not.
It's the same as if a bunch of Iranians parachuted onto an Israeli boat and started waving guns around.
- Israel has a history of extra-territorial operations of questionable legality. In my view, they have no right.Continuity
- Continuity0
@ JSK:
Why didn't they take them out remotely, or start popping off rounds downrange the moment they boarded the boat? It could be any number of reasons we're not aware of.
For example, _maybe_ the Israeli government wanted to at least keep some semblence of an appearance of decency (even though they were boarding a vessel outside of their jurisdiction).
Maybe, there were Mossad agents on that boat that had infiltrated the group, and they didn't want to grease them accidentally by taking them out from land.
Or, maybe, they wanted to bait the crew of the boat into attacking them, thereby polarising opinion in Israel's favour.
It could even be a combination of the above.
The point is, we don't know anything about the decision-making behind this operation. We only know what we see through the media ... and it doesn't look good for Israel at all.
- what we do know is israel kille a bunch of unarmed humanitarian workers on a boat in international waterscannonball1978
- by your logic we dont know anything about anything. israel might not even be realcannonball1978
- Basically, yeah.Continuity
- Well, it's not that we don't know anything about anything; we _do_ see the net results, which is the most important.Continuity
- What I'm saying is, we don't know if things didn't transpire differently for other reasons I speculated on.Continuity
- ukit0
Basically the Israeli philosophy is, we'll go anywhere we want, and if you so much as move, we have no choice but to kill you. We may kill you anyway of course.
- So why didnt they just start shooting before they landed?JSK
- Or shoot from flotilla to help the insertion team land safely.JSK
- why shoot at allcannonball1978
- JSK0
So are you saying that they asked for it?
- ukit0
Does it really matter though? Israelis didn't have any right to board the boat.