Php vs Ror
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- KarlFreeman
Im currently trying to scope out a project I want to get started, bare bones of it is that its a portfolio system with resume building. I know what your thinking, Krop right? well I'm not going to lie, its got similar functionality.
I wondered, I'm an AS3 Developer by profession and have been umming and arring about weather to brief the project in to a ror dev or a php dev.
Does anyone know of any reason to sway with one over the other. I prefer ror becuase of its mvc basis but of with regards to the project itself I don't want someone to have to re-invent the wheel to get a cms system in place which is where maybe php comes in to its strength.
- KarlFreeman0
Its a tough one for sure, I spoke with a ror dev where I work and he advised that it should be php but I'm just unsure.
Oh and I thought I would throw out that I'm not to fussed about the scalability comparison, when something is struggling with scaling this is clearly is only a good thing ;) and can be addressed when that actually happens!
- vaxorcist0
This can be a religious nuclear war, but here goes....
ROR can do things with complex data models, etc ROR also has some more set ways of doing certain things, thus one ROR dev can often pick up annothers project, even if there are fewer ROR dev's than PHP devs
PHP is generally easier to start out with, but can become spaghetti if multiple developers who have different ideas work on your project.. and some people type echo "hello"; and call themselves PHP devs..... but PHP is great for certain things, there are lots of CMS's
- ernexbcn0
ROR is a Ruby web framework, PHP by itself is not, there are some similar frameworks to Rails on PHP, like CakePHP
- acescence0
there are plenty of mvc frameworks for php, how they compare i don't know. it's certainly easier to deploy a php app, and there are more php devs out there. but yeah, you could do great things or really screw it up with either language, ha.
- drgss0
facebook runs on php
- heavyt0
where's @sublocked when you need him.
I use both technologies, and I would say that one nice thing about using a framework is that it is a lot easier for another developer to jump in and pick up where the last guy left off.
While PHP developers outnumber ROR developers, I would say that Rails outnumbers any PHP framework out there. So, dont commit to a PHP MVC framework thinking that it'll be easy to find a good developer later on.
Also, a good OO PHP programmer can make a good system that is easy for the next guy to understand, without needing a framework. As an AS3 developer, you might appreciate that style of coding.
Finally, they are both good choices (as well as .net, or Django for that matter.) I'd say - go with the developer you like the most and think will build the best system, regardless of technologies.
- sublocked0
I've devved pretty much every web technology under the sun. I love Rails, so I'll say go with that.
In my opinion, Ruby/Rails has a cleaner easier to read syntax than PHP. Best practices are already laid out for you with the framework, and all of that increases the speed of your coding.
If you pick PHP you'll need to then select a framework, figure out how you're going to do testing, and then learn that framework.
Rails makes all of those decisions for you with good defaults and then gets out of your way. Besides, what would you choose a PHP knockoff (CakePHP) when you could have the real deal in Rails? Doesn't make sense to me.
The support and information about Rails out there is generally very good. You can solve most problems with a quick google search or a trip to IRC.
My largest project is well about 12k lines of code, but is still manageable for 1-2 people just because of the way Rails is structured.
Make sure you incorporate testing early. Test driven development is baked into Rails, and helps you maintain stability with your code and gives you the security of knowing that your changes in one area of the system isn't fucking something else up.
I could go on and on and on.
- Get this book, then go from there...
http://www.pragprog.…sublocked
- Get this book, then go from there...
- sublocked0
PS: If you're leaning toward PHP because you feel there are existing CMS systems out there - consider this...
Any dev worth their salt (PHP or RoR) can come up with a customized CMS geared exactly towards your specific app in 1/2 the time it'd take someone to set up an off the shelf solution, then customize it for your needs.
Then you're stuck with legacy code and the decisions of the previous developer - for good or bad.
Think about that before you make your decision as well.
- ?? do you mean you worry about kludged-up modified systems, or developed-from-scrat... stuff?vaxorcist
- worry about kludged up modified systems.sublocked
- sorry sometimes i make no sense in my stream of consciousness babble.sublocked
- You make perfect sense. Your developer will disappear one day - get a corporate IT job, will have kids and no time for you.raf
- foobaz0
Whatever makes you feel more comfortable I would say, Ruby or PHP
I used to develop everything in RoR but recently switched to the CakePHP framework which is pretty similar.
- raf0
Unless you want this done in Flash, something tells me Indexhibit or Cargo will do the trick.
However... Flash or no flash, there is 99% chance your portfolio will be a set of images/videos with thumbnails and descriptions, categorized and/or tagged.
If you're already an AS3.0 developer, the php/mysql needed for that will take you one weekend + a few evenings for tweaks to get it running without a CMS (bare database managed via phpmyadmin). Add another weekend or three if you want a CMS.
- KarlFreeman0
@raf its not for a client. I would be the client ;) its an idea I've had that I now have enough money in the bank to fund. Ive started laying out the basics of what I want the backed to do so I'm now at the opportunity to create an alpha of the concept.
@heavyt I must admit that its going to heavily be dependent on the developer ( of course! ) but I think after hearing @sublocked and your thoughts I think it has solidified in my mind that its going to be rails. I think your right ror far outstretches any php framework which means that if something were to happen to the original ror dev i can imagine it is easier to transition to another rather than looking for a php dev with specific requirements.
@subblocked Thanks for your thoughts, I think you have pretty much summed up the side of me on the ror side of the fence, the only thing that made me lean to php was the 'of the shelf' solutions which are tempting but I want this to be a work of art, a true craft of a service so ror all the way. Plus your spot on test driven development, easier syntax, solid framework and a thriving community makes it a clear winner over a specific php framework.
Will keep you posted on how it goes, Its going to be a crazy thing hiring someone who is most likely on more than me per day ( guess I'm going to have to hit up some serious overtime just to break even with the ror developer )
- vaxorcist0
Do you like to be loose and improvisational or methodical and investigative? PHP = the former, ROR = the latter.....
- KarlFreeman0
@vaxorcist Methodical and investigative So i think your right ror might be the one for me. Plus its a language I'm keen on learning so i think that weighs in on my decision as well.
@boz You've got a point and its a large reason that I was edging to it being php with perhaps the fact that smaller components of the site could already be out there ready to go. The problem though is that I wouldn't want a solution that is built on top half baked hacked ones which I guess is what I can imagine happens alot with php, I'm not sure. Seems that ror has quite a solid userbase and if something I want isn't already created then It would be great to be the service that built that helpful thing for the ror community. Promotional building?
- alot of smaller components may not cobble together too well.... but PEAR is nice...vaxorcist
- ornj0
If you spoke with a ROR dev and they suggested that you build it in PHP why not end it there? Seems like you are fishing for reasons to build in ROR.
- KarlFreeman0
True, good point. I think the reasoning to get a couple more opinions is becuase being that he is a ror he might of worried that i would simply ask him!
- raf0
If you are an AS dev and want to learn programming in either of the languages, why don't you pick the one you want to learn? You should be familiar with your portfolio system architecture anyway.
- KarlFreeman0
@raf Yeah thats why ror has won over php. I prefer its straight from the get go, mvc way of doing things plus we use it a fair amount at work so I figure its a win win situation.
- moth0
I'd say it's a mute point, and not worth the outlay for a ROR dev for what is essentially a small application. Save your money and use PHP.
- it's actually "moot point" http://languagerules…sublocked
