ajax comps != photoshop?
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- vaxorcist
I'm working on a project that started out as a bunch of photoshop mockups, which I turned into css/html, there's a fair amount of ajax in this project and I'm finding photoshop a bad way to comp this for client approval....
a bit of rant, but here goes...
1. ? It may be easier to just use jQuery and do the ajax stuff, then get approval, whereas waterfall-minded "project managers" want to have comps signed off before any coding done... this leads to argh!
2. ? Does anyone out there do comps in a different, non-photoshop way? especially for ajax? Both account people and the Client have a terrible inability to previsualize things based on verbal explanations... if I show another site with a similar ajax UI concept, they can't seem to seperate the ajax UI example shown from all the other stuff on the example page and they end up commenting on the page's colors and logos! ...
3. I'm hating the workflow where everything is waterfalled downwards, i.e. account people pitch project, designers mockup, account people get client approval then it gets sent to developers all in one unchange-able box, all decisions "already made" .. but, there's lots of "can't get there from here" moments that have to force redesigning details, account people seem to blame this on developers...
4. I'm familiar with "Agile" methodology,etc... but I'm curious is people have much success selling the idea to management that's incurably linear, tied to "not going backwards on anything"
or maybe I'm working for idiots here..... but they do pay!
- creez0
i dont know what you are talking about, ajax is just a request technology nothing more
- heavyt0
This is quite a rant.
I would set it up with Layer Comps, each view state getting a comp.Your process sounds close to standard for a big shoppe. Although, there should be a tech lead in the design meetings, before the presentation just to make sure there are no technical impossibilities.
Also, follow the words of digital electric, "It's not impossible, it just costs more!"
- vaxorcist0
argh, yes, account people use the term "ajax" to refer to anything dynamic and their terminology has infected the dev team...
We mean mostly things you can do with jquery:
accordian menus
show/hide layers
greybox popups
login without page reload
...etc....Quite simple things really, but not to the old-style-minded account people and the print-minded client...
they'll probably end up hiring a consultant to re-tell them what we've been trying to tell them, but they need somebody with a certain kind of tilt of the head and ability to use powerpoint and wear suits, otherwise they don't listen....
- mikotondria30
I too am waist-deep in photoshop comps that I am turning into html/css, with a view to implementing what the client wanted in their brief using ajax (updating content without reloading page).
Luckily the client doesnt care about the technology and we can just say yes when they point at the screen and ask if that thing will do what they wanted it do when it's 'built'.
- mikotondria30
For uneducated clients:
Photoshop Comp = This is what it will look like.
Behavior = What you wanted it to do, it will/it can't be done.
- vaxorcist0
layer comps we tried.... we'll probably end up exporting all the layer comps into powerpoint (ugh) and use one-line text at the bottom of each screen and use a big pointer to show where the mouse is....
some politics, therefore no technical lead....
I like the "not impossible, just costs more" line.. they keep grumping about budget and deadlines while changing specs, but I'm used to that...
- ninjasavant0
That's what I do 8 hours a day. I used to do the photoshop thing but I've moved away from it. Create basic interaction specs with Fireworks. All the drawing capabilities of Pshop but you can add interactive symbols similar to Flash. Its been an absolute godsend in terms of showing behavior specs. Learn how to use it and you'll never go back. Plus, you can import your existing PS comps to get a head start.
- vaxorcist0
thanks, ninjasavant, I'll definately revisit fireworks..... been a while since I used it....
how easy/hard do you find it to create css/html from the fireworks stuff?
- zenmasterfoo0
Have you tried wire framing your pages? Use photoshop for only pertinent design elements, page layout, aesthetic, etc.
The screen to screen doesn't always have to be designed out. It's what we do here.
- vaxorcist0
Done alot of wireframing for other clients, this client complained to account people about a previous agency "wasting all this time with black and white diagrams" so we were told emphatically not to show wireframes....
interesting culture / politics here, client's from a different planet.. but I'm treating it as a learning experience
- ukit0
See to you, it may look like bureaucracy.
For the design firm, it's an opportunity to bill the client for 80k instead of 10.
- vaxorcist0
ukit, I think you're right... all those meetings were billable.
I'm learning not to say anything like "if people would just understand, this could be done much more easily/cheaply/speedily"
I had a friend who worked at Accenture, he said clueless clients were their specialty.
- mikotondria30
aw, thats just gravy-train-politics-psuedo-scam...
If you have a client that doesnt understand how the process from pshop->markup->dynamic coding works, then you need to find the most cost-effective way to demonstrate this and manage their expectations, not fleecing them by going through all manner of hoops just to keep them happy between them submitting what they want, and it being delivered. Anything else is a shistey scam, I don't care whether you're accenture or an all-rounder in his home office. It would be nice if clients were entirely undestanding of the process, but hey - they've paid you to do the job because you understand it and they don't - you don't make the doctor get out slides,3d models and textbooks when you go in for a minor procedure do you ? No -because you and he/she knows that they know the stuff and you don't, so they just get on with it and answer as many questions as practically possible. It sounds to me like these clients are too 'involved'. Stop having them round for extended meetings and get on with doing what they paid for.
- vaxorcist0
mikotondria3, you really have a point.
Ironically, I think the client is "too involved" because they felt "taken advantage of" by their previous agency, so they want to keep an eye on everything, but their learning process is slow and account people don't want to anger them...
Ideally, managers with guts and foresight should say "okay, with some mutual trust, this will be much faster and cheaper" if you want to understand this stuff, we'll have a separate meeting with a trainer,etc..
- klick1750
You could mock up the "AJAX" behavior in Flash--VERY simple Flash on the timeline. Basically, each frame represents a state but you can do simple tweens to represent motion, etc. Basically have screenshots w/ invisible squares acting as buttons to activate "AJAX" behavior. While mocking it up in Flash still takes time, it's probably more efficient than your current process, and it should reduce the amount of 'miscommunication' time.
- ninjasavant0
The problem with the output from Fireworks is that its very basic table stuff, wouldn't use it other than to show interactivity. For HTML mockups I create it from scratch in Dreamweaver but fireworks actually makes it pretty easy to get the files I need.