legal woes
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- jimt
hi. my wife is a freelancer, and she put up a bunch of pictures of work she did as a freelancer on her website. today a firm that she used to do freelance for served her with papers saying that she has no right to put images of that work on her site even though she gives the firm credit. they also say she has no right to mention the names of the high end clients that this firm created the displays for (via my wife). i realize this is a big and tricky situation, and i will probably call a layer on monday, but i know i've seen countless demo reels and portfolios that consisted of work created as freelance for larger firms. should we give up or fight? my wife has sketches and documented communication between her and the firm she was freelancing for. also, other former freelancers for that firm have used images, and none of them have been sued to my knowledge. what do you think?
- ukit0
It seems like you see this on a lot of people's sites but I wonder if it's all at the whim of the firm (my guess is yes). I'd be curious to hear what the lawyer you speak to says.
- Amen0
from my understanding, if you sign a contact as 'A work made for hire'. technically, you can't show the works. coz all copyright is belong to the firm. even you did design it.
- there was no contract. all word of mouth. it will be interesting to see what the lawyer says. i think it's a scare tactic.jimt
- daveFelton0
There are countless firms that will not allow employees, freelancers or otherwise, to use work in personal portfolios. Its not fair, in my opinion, and it doesn't benefit anyone really, but its just the way it is. The only one who suffers is the designer who can't show their work.
It will all depend on what type of contract your wife signed when first elisting with the firm. If the contract says that she can't use the work in any way, even with citations, then legally she'll have no ground to stand on, and will have to remove it from her 'folio. If no contract was signed, you'd probably be able to fight since she is giving credit where its due.
My general understanding is when you work somewhere fulltime, any and all work you produce belongs solely to the firm or client, and can be used by you with either the firm or the client's approval. Not sure how that applies to a freelance situation, but thats what the contract is for. Did she sign anything?
- Its deos not apply to freelance, unless you sign away your rights to the work, the work is yours!NONEIS
- daveFelton0
Ahh, so there was no contract at all. Another thing I thought was that maybe they don't want potential competitors seeing the designs. Is that at all applicable to the situation? Have the displays she designed become public and put on display? If there was no contract I think she'll be fine as far as "real" legal trouble, and you are right about it being a scare tactic.
- the work was public, and my wife produced work steadily for the firm as an independent contractor for over two years (no contract). everyone who would benefit from seeing the designs has already seen them. thanks for your responses by the way. it's encouraging. we are enraged.jimt
- jimt0
the work was public, and my wife produced work steadily for the firm as an independent contractor for over two years. everyone who would benefit from seeing the designs has already seen them. thanks for your responses by the way. it's encouraging. we are enraged.
- sintaxera0
It sounds like she's in the clear if she didn't sign anything from them. By any chance did your wife have them sign anything when she started the work (contract, quote or something like that)? If so, did it have a clause saying that she retains the right to show the work as a promo or something along those lines? (i forget how it should be worded in lawyerese), but either way, I'd call a lawyer to represent you and see what they have to say.
- organic_grid0
Some firms are just asswipes, I hope they fail.
- jimt0
she never signed anything ever. it was all verbal and e-mail assignments. there were never any stipulations or limitations put on anyone. i believe the firm wanted it that way so they could cut and run if they didn't like her work. i believe the firm is bitter because my wife and i are planning to move, and they didn't want her to stop making work for them. they do in fact seem to be asswipes as organic grid suggests.
- stoplying0
That sucks. I'd say most people just put the work up on their sites assuming that nobody is ever going to see it. But I guess it didn't turn out that way for you.
If there was no contract, then you should fight.
- harlequino0
It can also depend on the nature of the contract between the firm and the end client. I've done things before where not even the firm was allowed to show client work or even reveal that they work for said client. It's odd, but that happens from time to time.
Also, some large clients are just weird about showing the work depending on the industry. We do stuff for a major cosmetics brand, and this one head of marketing loses her frigging rag if we show anything without her prior consent. But that's just her. You never know.
Good luck with this!
- monkeyshine0
I'm always amazed to hear that after all of the stories you hear, there are still folks out there working with agencies with nothing in writing. Why oh why?! I'm no attorney but I'd say that as long as she didn't sign a work-for-hire agreement, they have no legal claim on her work...unless she signs it over, she is the one who retains the rights to what she has produced, no?
- monkeyshine0
I just pulled this from AIGA...if you are a member go there and do some research.
"under copyright law, an independant contractor (freelancer) is able to control how he transfers ownership, if at all, of his work."
The article goes onto talk about how if a client demands that a freelancer not show work in their portfolio, the freelancer should demand to be compensated: "I would always urge a designer to retain an absolute right to show work in his portfolio or in advertisements for his services. If a client wants to remain anonymous, let him pay for that privilege. Your portfolio is the only proof of your ability."
--copied from Intellectual Property: What does "Work for Hire" mean for designers?
by Frank Martinez, Attorney-at-LawMarch 06, 2003
- dskz0
Interesting that you should bring this up because Im starting a case right now involving just this subject. According to my lawyer the internet is not public domain. Just because Google puts your image in their search engine doesnt mean its public. You can try to use an image , but if the intellectual property holder complains, he has every right to get you to remove your image if you publish it yourself. He pointed me to a case where Virgin Mobile was using some images off of Flickr for a campaign, Virgin got sued and lost some big coin over that. And the ad agency hasnt been working with big clients since.
- the question here is who is the intellectual property owner. If you read my above post then it appears that the designer is.monkeyshine
- mimeartist0
I'm glad I work with the madeThoughts and NB:Studios of this world who just want to create great stuff with you.
- trooper0
get some t&c's in future, i dont do work without it! always states i have the right to promote the work as my own. of course its negotiable however i will put up the fee if this is the case.
- jimt0
we weren't able to talk to the lawyer on monday. now we're shooting for friday.
- creative-0
This thread was along similar lines, and may help:
http://www.qbn.com/topics/543882…
- NONEIS0
You have nothing to fear, this is a baseless claim. Any time you do freelance, and you don't sign an agreement with the client that specifically signs away your rights to the work, you retain ownership of that creative. You can make your life easier in teh future by using a conract and explicitly pointg this out, regardless of the legal nessecity, it will stop a-holes from trying to burn you.
Tell them to bugger off with confidence, the suit will be thrown out as frivolous if they pursue.
- nocomply0
haven't read the comments but I'm pretty sure the agency asking you to remove the work is all bark and no bite. They don't have the time or resources to come after you. It's not worth it to them.
I would probably take it down to appease them and then set up a new password-protected portfolio.
- pr20
first case ever where not signing any contract is to our advantage????