irritating
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- Witt0
fuck me i wonder if this be a goodly sound profession...
- paraselene0
that sounds more than irritating, sweetie.
do that thing that we're supposed to do, remember?
shout at him:
YA DUUUUUURTTTTY FUUUCKEN HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR!
- kelpie0
I'm going to write the most condecending e-mail EVER to both of them wth teh wisdomâ„¢ on HTML and such, I might be able to head this off at the pass.
Then and only then will the nail bombs be prepared.
and the Sarin gas.
and the pliers with acid on them.
and all the rest of that stuff, you know...
- paraselene0
CAT O' NINE TAILS!
- kelpie0
yeah, got one of them, thumbs up. ;)
- rabattski0
don't understand why you would embark on this project anyways since a) it's irritating already and foremost b) it's not profitable.
i understand doing low budget jobs but i only do low budget jobs if it has something in it for me, as in, is it a cool project? do i get absolute creative freedom? etc. in this case i'd def. would have passed on that.
- kelpie0
it's complicated (and out of my hands) Rab, but I'm hearing you.
The convention is run by an umbrella events company who kick a lot of work about if that approaches a good reason :\
- kelpie0
off for a munch now btw - cheers for the responses, you may now ignore this thread :
I am much calmer now for getting it orf me chest, thx :)
- rabattski0
i know what you mean kelpie but that is theoretical, practically i've heard it so many times, companies promising more work if you do their stuff for almost zero. thing is, they never ever come up with more work and if they very rarely do, they expect the same treatment you gave them in the first place, which is, low budget work.
the same counts for giving discount, give them discount and soon they think that it is the regular price and they will be upset if you charge your normal price. and never mind explaining you gave them discount initially, they'd never understand.
so a) never give discount b) never do commercial low budget projects based on future promises for more work. seriously. i have been in this business for quite some time now.
- rabattski0
so basically you should say: my way or the high way, they get shit for free and in return you get to do what you want to do. that is what the deal should be.
- kodap0
rabitski is right. i like your responses.
- rabattski0
what i forgot, another standard thing you'll hear which should trigger your brain and should make you start running is: it's good for your portfolio.
that small sentence translated means: we need good work, we know what it costs but we refuse to pay a cent for good work because we're cheap bastards and we just stroke the ego of the designer long enough and get it done for free.
run forest, run.
- UndoUndo0
so a) never give discount b) never do commercial low budget projects based on future promises for more work. seriously. i have been in this business for quite some time now.
rabattski
(May 5 05, 04:33)...................................
absolute truth, and definately worth remembering, some clients have very selective memories!
- stem0
So true rabattski - Detaching your ego (however big) and your personality from your work is essential when it comes to making a living from your work.
If you feel your work is a reflection of your personality/creativity whatever... do it as a hobby, don't buy the whole "It's good for my portfolio" shit!
Paid work is done simply to make a living!
- rabattski0
i wasn't really talking about detaching ones ego from ones work because sometimes, maybe even most of the time, the work is a reflection of ones personality, i was merely pointing out the arguments clients use to get things done for free, arguments which should trigger your brain and go aargh!
- kelpie0
cheers guys
It's not being done for free on the old "portfolio basis" I learnt that one the hard way some years ago, don't worry ;)
I think further up from me someone costs certain work we do poorly and the knock-on effect is that what should be an easy reasonable dialogue tween agencies becomes a real stress point for me as I try to get the job in on budget - I guess my main beef is with that really, not this other designer guy (I mean, solidarity Kelpie, c'mon!).
I'll work it out, thanks for the sage words.
(ps. you should write a book Rabattski -
"Don't give me any shit before you show me the money
- for beginners"you'd make a fortune mate ;)
cheers again :)
- UndoUndo0
it's good for your portfolio.
rabattski
...................................ha ha ha brilliant, its a classic.
if a "client" says this it is a true insult to you and should be pointed out as such
- rabattski0
haha, writing a book would be cool though but that's not my cup of tea. i'd rather teach art students about it while they still are in school including the whole marketing and self branding aspect of it all. that would be something usefull i think. anyways, most of it is common knowledge, plus you learned it as well, albeit the hardway, which is imo the best way. i think it's part of the experience which in the end everyone will learn.
- kelpie0
should always really have "now bend over this won't hurt much" added at the end ;)
- kelpie0
hmmm, my last response just skipped one...
I'll see if I can line you up for a teaching position on the "don't be a wee fud" course at my old Uni ;)