freelance work issues
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- ozhanlion
hey fellas, today I have met my new client (cross yer fingers) and we come to the situation that I should put forward the price I want -and the work deserves of course- in details. From registering the domain and getting a hosting to the smallest detail.
The work is building a brand and a web site(it will be built in flash I presume) for the company (they prepare wedding ceremonies meals, bussiness meeting meals, all kind of organizations for the high society (my ass:) but we all have to earn our livin)
Do u any of you guyz know some web sites for a reference in terms of this, and more importantly how can I decide how much to get, is there some salary of this pre-decided in terms of freelancers etc. and finally what should be my deadline of this project normally.
Should I get some advance before the work.Is there some place that I can find answers to all of this stuff, like freelancers community or a place like that :)
pass that on :)
oz.
- freshmode0
My first question is, have you ever been paid for any work before? Second, have you ever quoted a job before? Third, have you ever done anything like this before?
Not to be a dick, but if you are asking all of this, you either are very new or a push over and will never get ahead in life.
If this is one of your first paying gigs, or a first gig all together, consider a flat rate over an hourly rate. Chances are you will not manage the time correctly fussing with small issues and go way over the client’s expectations and blow any future work.
Do some research on intellectual property? That is what you are creating for them. You are creating a new way of bringing in more revenue for them, as a freelance, you need to explain and justify what your worth is. The new brand and website are everything for them.
There are books that would explain this in more detail. GAG Handbook of Pricing & Ethical Guidelines #10. Great book. Very helpful.
IF your client is well off and this is a first for you, consider $3,000.00 - $5,000.00 for the website and $1,500.00 - $3,000.00 for the branding. If you have done this a few times before and have good clients, consider double that.
It might seem like a lot but you need to explain what they are paying for. Remember, you are creating something that they cannot hold or touch. They can't pass it around to friends or flip through it like a book. So you need to be very thorough when you explain what they are getting for the price.
Good luck and let us know how it goes. Get that book. Worth it. Hope this helps
fresh!
- jevad0
"Not to be a dick, but if you are asking all of this, you either are very new or a push over and will never get ahead in life"
If you weren;t trying to be a dick you did a pretty good job man.
Tact - get some.
- MrDinky0
ask someone that you know who has done alot of freelance work.
listen to the dick
- freshmode0
Thanks jevad. I love how instead of being helpful, you took it upon yourself to quote me.
I was pointing out the obvious.
People here are too soft when it comes to advice. Take it with a grain of salt chief.
married - gets it all the time.
word
- ephekto0
there was an article i read from pixelsurgeon (i think) that i found very helpful when i was freelancing
here is the doc. read it here.
- ozhanlion0
first of all thanks for being dick freshmode :)
When it comes to advice I am one of the types that likes to be dicked if you know what I mean :) harshness is a style, for me experience that counts.
I am gonna search the book right away, and about the questions you have asked, yeah I have done couple of works before, most of them belonging to an agency, freelance only one. That was for a friend's father's company and it was really a pain in the ass. It took me 2 months to complete the web site (it was only a web site job) you wouldn't believe how they fuck me to get what they want to get in contrary to me.
I got only paid 250 bucks before and 250 after the job.And in the end I couldn't look at the site I have done because I hated it so much. you can grasp a look at www.psikolog.org. Crap work. That's why I didn't want to put a signature to it.
Don't welcome critism on this one, I can make hundred in a breath :)
So this time I want to play according to the game. That was my intention in this topic. I don't want my work to be ruined like the last time. In this country, unfortunately, you don't get the pay according to the hour work. They give you the money and boom they have every right to fuck you according to them.
I have just graduated from the university and this time I don't want to give the string, rope whatever to 'em.
I have already told 'em a average price not the final word. it is 1000$ for the identity (all stationery) and the 1500$ for the web site.
And they have already mumbled about the price. I said I can make a discount blla bla. and that was where the last word spoken.
Now I am trying to make up my mind about the details of the price. How can I calculate it, and make the final price. It is coming what you did said, I should make 'em believe that this is not merely a lousy site, it is damn communication.
Honestly the prices I have told them were my top ones so it comes big to me too. I should definitely get rid of that feeling. I couldn't believe myself that I should get such big bucks because I love what I do man, I approach it with love.
I feel myself more of a bussinessman in this concept and that's where I don't want to play the game. IT really pisses me off.
Maybe it is time to grow up for me too.
thanks for the comments really.
oz.
- ozhanlion0
and btw I really really don't like to call my work as a crap. It is full of thoughts full of sweat in it.
But you see that's where the clients make you go.
I really hate it :/
oz.
- mbr0
My advice would be to make absolutely sure you come to an understanding where the line gets drawn. I am experiencing this for a second go around (granted, this is a perfect career project and the first one of this size that I've done).
GET IT IN WRITING!!It's really easy to get screwed over by 'being nice' and letting your clients indecision, or continual changing decisions, dictate your progress. This is easy to fall into when you are trying to make a portfolio (as most of us are). Just make sure you state "3 mockups, one developed site" or whatever, just so they don't go "yeah, I like the hor. blue one," then a week later, "I saw a green one that was vert., can we make the blue one vert, too?" and on and on. It'll happen.
A kill fee is a good one, too. I haven't done it, but will in the future. Or at least break down the payments so that if they decide 'fuck it', and drop you, you'll have something. No payment, no more work until they pay. No one can really argue with that, and if they do, they ain't someone to work for!
- aniphex0
First of all, we all have projects that we don't exactly see eye to eye with the client... it is just part of the job. Don't let it get to you.
Secondly, Yes! listen to the (smart) dick and to MBR as well... get the book, make sure to get your shit in writing (document phone conversations by following up with email) and let them know that it will cost more for extra services up front.
I ran across this site some time ago, I think there is some kind of membership due or something but it seemed viable. Check it out. I have also seen similar books availabe at Borders or B&N book stores.
Also it might work in your favor to bid a flat rate but charge hourly over a certain amount of work.
Dont be afraid not to take the job too... good luck!
- woodyBatts0
All of these are really good points. Get it in writing. Kill fees, flat fees. Trust me on this one, stand firm when in negotioations. I have been a victim to the "rush job" syndrome, where a client needs a rush job, but will not stop and adhere to your standards for contracts, pay scales, they just want to get all the work done.
Then they don't wnt to pay you.
Then if your me, you get to travel 3 states and take them to court.
- joyride0
Check yer mail! You've got a present.
Good Luck
- unknown0
its also a matter of market value. which depends on what jobs you have on the table. if you have another job in the horizon, then tell your prospective client that you charge 2500 instead of the 1500 you did... if they start flinching about the price... or say dumb shit like, "well.. my son makes websites, he could do it for way less... he has a program called frontpage or something"
explain what quality is to them. if their son does it, its going to look like a dithered-gif-fucked-up-kerning-n... if they have a cheeper option.. they may go for it, but warn them that what they are going for could end them up with a really horrible design.which then leads me to how good you are... if you suck, then you cant command such a high price. one of the best judges of that, is if your personal site is interesting.
one of my past clients saw my site, and liked it so much he wanted a site like mine, (flashy, clean, simple) i was able to command a higher price, because my site was slick.
ON PAPER! - you must mke contracts because clients WILL fuck you.
And if you want to start making good money, you need need need to network. business cards, talking it up, whatever...you have to be really good at networking. it is my greatest skill...
ive done probably 10 websites so far, one for Warner Bros. one for Tribute Mag, and Schlumberger.
ive met with eric natske (talked about job offers) , josh davis, and kevin towes all through networking. i pushed networking to the max when i talked to josh davis about coming to my high school to give a quick FLOW presentation, at Flash In the Can... (im 18 years old) you have to drive yourself man... keep you goal in mind whatever it is, working at a cool design firm, creating your own studio, or just doing freelance... it all depends on your goal and drive as a person....
anyway... cheers, and good luck with everthything...