Politics

Out of context: Reply #30566

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  • deathboy11

    ukit on the idea of UBI, what do you think of simply getting rid of SS and the marketing mirage behind early retirement and bliss. Might be better to take off more time early in life and work later with more experience. Personally I don't really buy into the idea my retirement years are my best and where my money should be focused.

    SS is 12.4% so 40k year salary would give you about an extra 400 a month (but now would need to be taxed as income). Money to be used now in the same thinking that money is best given to people to choose how it serves them best. Not snap or aid with restrictions. And 400 is actually a lot to a strapped 40k year salary. Many studies show 200 dollars would change so much.

    Instead of UBI might it be better to focus on dissolving gov programs that are failing and not living up to the promises of the proposers who are now long and dead. This one would also directly effect the middle-lower classes the most wealth the caps on the tax and deadbeats just being deadbeats.

    I think instead sometimes its better to go backwards and fix problems than just trying to toss bandaids because easier politically.

    And on a side note I'd love to stop giving people tax benefits perversly incentivize giving money(power) to corporations and banks every month as 401k/ira investment funds. Another christian style promise of glorious future if you invest early. The non investment of people who know nothing is better than blind investment. A change in the culture of how our retirement investing is seen could help with more monthly funds towards things that are important now. While tuning down the banks power and manipulations. Pretty much every traded companys is trading over its real value. Like playstations on ebay at launch when supply is limited. But the constant influx of passive capital I think gives the banks so much leeway that price discovery is out.

    deathboy 11Permalink
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    • what kind of returns are you getting on that non investment?monospaced
    • You really think it would be easier politically to cancel Social Security without replacing it with anything?yuekit
    • HA no it wouldn't be easy rolling back terrible regulation is painful and quite negative politically. People like idea of free shit or get more than they paid.deathboy
    • but instead of proposing more untested bandaids that might make things worse why not look rationally at rolling back poor policy?deathboy
    • @mono Responsible savers has not been a a good option. Good guys finish last. Central bank policy has inflated asset prices so high right now.deathboy
    • I hoped powell would stay strong on promise, but got spooked on liquidity and a massive quick collapse. now cornered. No longer is any market in control.deathboy
    • but as far as question to ukit is concerned is not that a viable option to give more lower income peopel more captial they can choose how to use that works bestdeathboy
    • for them, before any "extra" program. The whole pragmatist idea of milton friedman negative income tax is based on self interest and liquiditydeathboy
    • But its about what make sense. Hard to say people need SS more in older age than poor people need 400. Be opinion. But UBi arguments stand on how extra incomedeathboy
    • matters. Would you not be into that to alleviate suffering of people who might never make it or even see the money they pay now?deathboy
    • I think you will end up paying for it one way or another. No social security or other welfare program for old people...well have fun living with your parentsyuekit
    • for a third of your life and paying for their bills etc when they can no longer work.yuekit
    • You forget that idea is a culture thing created by our programs. Is paying 8k a month for a dementia patient to shit himself and get enough medicine to prolongdeathboy
    • worth it? Are you just hiding from guilt hoping someone else pays the tab? But i see you value long term for your view vs short term ppl who need itdeathboy
    • You clearly don't want to pay the tab for the bills of elders. and want someone else to pay. do you think thats right?deathboy
    • is your motive more selfish than altruistic in aiming to benefit others? think you make it pretty clear on valuesdeathboy
    • which is he crux of the social issue. do we want to finance our elders? Of course we don't want that burden and look for a magical cure all from it. howeverdeathboy
    • that cure all has been a larger part of our healthcare costs. We get what we deserve when we try to mask our true greedy selves.deathboy
    • and that is plain irrevocable truth. no matter how you try to frame it to your worldview.deathboy
    • Not saying there is a magical solution. I'm just pointing out that in the past (and also today in much of the world since a majority of countries don't haveyuekit
    • social security), there was still a lot of time and money put into taking care of old people. The community paid the price, families took care of them etc.yuekit
    • Social programs are really just a way to depersonalize that process. So it's not like you get a free lunch by ending the program, you're still left with theyuekit
    • same problem to deal with. And I don't think the evidence by looking at countries that lack these programs shows that people are better off -- in fact probablyyuekit
    • worse off.yuekit
    • A lot of "time and money" is valued differently through cultures. Some cultures embrace life and death without expensive drawn out medical help.deathboy
    • I think our particular culture in tryin to escape the burden and pacify our guilt is hoping for someone else to pickup tab and make it all last as long as possideathboy
    • ble. to me it feels like running from the inevitable. logically should some one 80 have a million dollar hospital bill to live in a nursing home for 3 years?deathboy
    • there kids if burdened by the cost would say no and culture would be different. but if we can float it amongst others than we can have our cake and eat it too.deathboy
    • no guilt and no burden, besides visiting the dementia ridden nursing homes. This culture also has a negative effect not usual to alot of american prosperitydeathboy
    • wealth is not passed down generationally anymore and is passed to corporations that keep you along enough to milk you for all you are worth. I think that willdeathboy
    • significantly effect the middle class and help produce larger wealth inequalitydeathboy
    • I think we simply someitmes look at thing incorrectly. Much like saying bless you to a sneeze culturally as we do with social security.deathboy
    • Ignore the "promise" or rhetoric and see things for what they are. Not as we have been told to see them. Our current culture/system is hardly good for anythingdeathboy
    • greater. Just sold poison as cure for shit instead of really dealing with what matters honestlydeathboy
    • And you saying to depersonalize i see as saying to shed responsibility...deathboy
    • Let me give you an example, I'm in Thailand right now which has no social security at all. So you might think people are saving a lot more money at work...yuekit
    • But actually no, it turns out that every young person here is socially obligated to take part of their paycheck and mail it home to their parents every month.yuekit
    • There's no law that enforces this, but basically if you don't do it you are considered a bad person due to culture, religion, etc. And parents get to decideyuekit
    • how much of the kids' paycheck they get to take. So it's like they ended up recreating the same system anyway. Only difference is now you are stuck dealing withyuekit
    • your family about money issues all the time, and you are more or less obligated to have kids, otherwise no retirement lol.yuekit
    • As far as keeping people alive longer and the costs involved, I think this gets into some different issues. Such as the insane cost of health care in the US.yuekit
    • So you want to unburden your self with familial guilt? That is selfish but i get it. I tell my parents you take care of yourself im have no plan on being yourdeathboy
    • caretaker. Many people have kids for the idea of future safety. Its culture. But see what you are saying as, well purely selfish hoping certain societal burdensdeathboy
    • will be taken care of for you. Even though i tell my parents they are on their own ill take care of them best i can to an extent. And even planning my lifestyledeathboy
    • accordingly to fit downturns in without sacrifice even if it costs more upfront. im a super selfish person person planning for scenarios id prefer not to havedeathboy
    • to deal with, but i dont think spreading the burden among others is a advisable goal. and i dont think the cultural aspect idea of retirement is rationaldeathboy
    • personally im a workaholic and maybe why i see the idea of no work a fairy tale. again the retirement aspect is a cultural myth through liberal propaghandadeathboy
    • it would be great to unburden ourselves of the idea of producing and live greatly at the expense of others, and if we ponzi scheme it to be we can all make itdeathboy
    • work. reality is some people want to work and some people will have to work until death. The illusion of SS retirement is an outright lie. More so ifdeathboy
    • you dont count the medicare/medicaid?.. Certain collective funding helps propagate ideas on longevity and non work....deathboy
    • i think us white americans might have lost our real tribal values that say mexicans have. ( i joke all the time how they like their family for it and i dont)deathboy
    • but it makes sense western thinking is of the individual in a society of rule and law, where family and collective is survival in areas where that is notdeathboy
    • and there is something funny that an individualism with all its achievements will be pulled back down to a new tribalism status quo of the statedeathboy
    • not on even looking out for you small not tribes interests. but systems are funny thingsdeathboy
    • ha i love the upvotes when i call them out. wink wink manipulatorsdeathboy
    • but come on seriously the upvotes is full of shit. again anyone seeing this?deathboy
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