Nonbinary
Nonbinary
Out of context: Reply #26
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- Morning_star0
Something greater?
How is it a 'greater' society when law dictates our speech, the very words we have to use?
How is it a 'greater' society when 'respect' is enforced rather than earnt?
How is it a 'greater' society when those who shout, cry, wail and whine the loudest are the only ones that are heard?
How is it a 'greater' society when the current nonbinary movement directly undermines the legal argument of 'born this way', a fundamental principle of the LBGT rights movement?
“Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.” Abraham Lincoln.
- "dictates our speech" you mean like the N word?pango
- "cry, wail and whine the loudest are the only ones that are heard?"
isn't that just how everything works? if no body complains then everything is fine.pango - 'born this way'
i got nothing for that...pango - It's entirely the opposite to the 'n' word. The law dictates the pronouns we have to use.Morning_star
- ".... freedom... "
who's freedom got denied?pango - Poor thing, persecuted minorities are forcing you to anything? You are the only ones being cry babies, LGBT people just fight for their right...sr_rosa
- ... to not be treated as less than you. You don't like it? Yo fuck yourself with a stick. It's basic human rights. If you don't like it, go find another planet...sr_rosa
- ...to live in. Ignorance is not a right. Hate is not a right. Discrimination is not a right. Being a fucking snowflake is not a right.sr_rosa
- Also ‘born this way’ doesn't respond to any scientific evidence. Sexuality is not black or white, is a spectrum, and can be fluid.sr_rosa
- The ‘born this way’ crap is used by non-LGTB people to be condescendent. ‘Poor people who were born with an imperfection and can't do anything about it’.sr_rosa
- sr_rosa, are you kidding? Are you suggesting people are not free to be an ignorant, hate-filled, bigots?Morning_star
- You can as you have the ability. But it's not a right. You don't have the right to be an asshole. But LGTB people have the right to not be discriminated.sr_rosa
- Or, to be more precise, you don't have the legal right. If you and your three friends on Facebook agree on something you can believe you have a moral right.sr_rosa
- And that's cool as long as you don't interact socially with anyone outside that circle.sr_rosa
- I don't think you understand what discrimination means.Morning_star
- I don't think you do, either. See it from a non-binary point of view. If you were, let's say, under arrest and the officers addressed you as her all the time...sr_rosa
- ... if you are him, or the opposite, wouldn't you think it's a lack of respect? Being addressed as her while you tell them to respect you and address you as him?sr_rosa
- You surely would file a complaint, and it's understandable. What makes you think non-binary people are less than you and don't deserve that same respect?sr_rosa
- That's discrimination based on their genre.sr_rosa
- And you may not agree or not understand it, and that's fine. Just keep it to yourself instead of hurting other people's rights just because your opinions.sr_rosa
- What about the lack of respect this nonbinary person has for the law? Or the teaching faculty they're protesting? You have absolutely no understanding of...Morning_star
- ..my particular circumstances yet you assume so much. Where is your respect?Morning_star
- They don't have respect for the status quo, because everything needs some fight to change. People has human rights, institutions or abstract constructions don'tsr_rosa
- I must respect every religious person, ie, because they are people. I don't have to respect their religion, because religion has no rights, people do.sr_rosa
- I was just illustrating with an example and didn't make any assumption on you. You're just changing the topic, being a snowflake again, puting yourself...sr_rosa
- ...in the center of everything. Breaking news: not everything is about you, your opinions, and your personal circumstances.sr_rosa
- That's why you can't deny other people's rights and make it about your rights. It's not a right to mess with others' rights because of your opinions.sr_rosa
- 'I must respect every religious person, ie, because they are people.' <- this is the most absurd statement I've read outside the Politics and Religion threads.Continuity
- Are you out of your mind? No-one is under any obligation to dispense un-earned respect to anyone else. Fuck me.Continuity
- And this nugget: 'Breaking news: not everything is about you, your opinions, and your personal circumstances.' Be careful with this one, cos it goes both ways.Continuity
- And this includes people who would benefit from a nice long course of psychotherapy to help them sort their personal gender issues.Continuity
- You be careful, because maybe you are more in need of psychotherapy than anyone you are diagnosing.sr_rosa
- Non-binary is not people who are confused, or needs to make their mind just to fit whatever simple mental construction of reality you have in your mind.sr_rosa
- And with respect, of course, I'm talking about legal right to not be discriminated, not about being nice or polite, although it never hurts.sr_rosa
- Discrimination is a fundamental part of the human condition. For one thing it keeps us safe. Secondly, respect is not a right as you've shown in your...Morning_star
- ..recent replies.Morning_star
- Discrimination has two meanings, making differentiation, and acting with the power to make distinction. Human rights forbid you to the latter, not the first.sr_rosa
- Human brain works mostly making judgments. That doesn't mean you don't have to be rational beyond those automatic judgments.sr_rosa
- I don't have to respect your opinions, your position, your ideas, or your sense of self-entitlement. That doesn't mean I have the right to say to don't deserve...sr_rosa
- ...the same dignity as any other human, because it's your right. Pointing out the flaws in your logic, or the absence of it in what you write is not trying to...sr_rosa
- ...take away any of your rights. Characterising your efforts to enter discussion about your butt hurt as a snowflake is not hurting your rights.sr_rosa
- *To center, not enter.sr_rosa
- Your last four posts are equally true for you as they are for me. However, could you explain where 'my sense of self entitlement' has reared it's head, also...Morning_star
- ...i'm unsure of the logical flaws in my argument. Perhaps you could be a little more condescending by way of explanation.Morning_star
- I surely could, I don't think I will. You started making an argument from the point of view of how could it affect your freedom. And then appealing to your...sr_rosa
- ...particular case and personal circumstances, that no one in the discussion have assumed, criticised or argued about.sr_rosa
- Ellaborating on the part on how human brain works, you seem — that is an appreciation and could be wrong, here I'm assuming — to be looking for confirmation...sr_rosa
- ...of your behaviour — confirmation bias working here — instead of trying to understand before having a position.sr_rosa
- "You started making an argument from the point of view of how could it affect your freedom" No i didn't. Read the post. You assume far too much.Morning_star
- So, talking about ‘our speech’ and ‘words we use’, in opposition to ‘those who shout, cry, wail and whine’, and ending with a quote about freedom, doesn't mean...sr_rosa
- ...you are making a distinction between ‘you’ and ‘them’ regarding freedom? Then maybe you should read the post.sr_rosa
- If i wanted to make a distinction i would have used 'I' and 'me' not 'we' and 'us'. It's you that have projected your prejudices, discrimination and ...Morning_star
- ...assumptions on to the post. For what it's worth, my intention was to point out that there are wider societal problems and fall out that stem from this...Morning_star
- ...particular issue.Morning_star
- I haven't projected anything, I just read what you wrote. And you oposed two sides, on the non-binary vs LGBT as well. You want to clarify yourself? Add more...sr_rosa
- ...context? Be my guess. But stop acusing me of not understanding, of projecting, of assuming, and start talking about my arguments instead of trying to...sr_rosa
- ...invalidate my opinion by invalidating me, in a classic ad hominem fallacy.sr_rosa
- 'Sides' what? I'm not on a side. I don't have an agenda. My post highlighted potential issues for society as a whole. As you keep pointing out, it's never ...Morning_star
- ..black and white. There are always shades of grey. Ad hominem? I'm question what you have written NOT you. I don't know you ...Morning_star
- The only snowflake here is rosaimbecile
- ... You seem to be under the misguided impression that i give a fuck about the way you identify. I don't.Morning_star
- See? Again you try to make it about you or about me. Let's make it about the arguments.sr_rosa
- I wish you would.Morning_star
- Ok, back to square one, point by point of your original post. 1. As in the example I gave you before, I think law show force people in the administration or...sr_rosa
- ...representing authority to be respectful with everyone, no matter if it's binary or not. 2. Respect, as a legal right to not be discriminated, should be...sr_rosa
- ...inforced by law. Respect as in politeness and dignity should be required in any figure of authority or administration. It is part of human rights, but it's...sr_rosa
- ...impossible to dictate behaviour in everyday life between individuals by law. 3. Activism is always like that, specially when coming from a minority. If you...sr_rosa
- ...don't fight for your rights, won't be given to you out of generosity. Ie, homosexuality was removed as a mental disorder only because LGBT people fought...sr_rosa
- ...for it. It's important to know that including it as a mental disorder in the first place was arbitrary judgment and not because scientific reasons.sr_rosa
- 4. Non-binary are part of LGBT. Trans* include not only transexuals and transgender, also other groups. So non-binary can't hurt LGBT rights, because these are...sr_rosa
- ...also theirs. ‘Born this way’ or LGBT people being not-guilty by inevitability of their condition is a fucking stupid and condescending notion.sr_rosa
- And as a final note, your quote on freedom is about shared rights — hurting your rights hurt mine, because we all share rights. Non-binary defending their...sr_rosa
- ...right doesn't hurt anyone's rights, unless you understand rights as a collision — one's rights ends where others' rights start — instead of a share.sr_rosa
- I already wrote most of this, but those are my arguments.sr_rosa
- wow, so many triggered white hetro males on an issue that will have pretty much zero impact on your lives. move on lolfadein11