IAAH™ / v7
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- gabe0
neue75, there's a difference between valid criticism from a reputable source and some trolls blindly hating on someone's work (out of jealousy, perhaps). to call ness's work mediocre and to liken it to student work is just dumb.
he's obviously accomplished, widely published, and while you might not like his site, it's just wrong to call his work medicore or unfinished.
- but that's his opinion. why do we feel the need to validate everything?7point34
- "it's just wrong" seriously?neue75_bold
- nostradamus is a reputable source working in the "industry" who's been a longstanding member of thisneue75_bold
- "community" pretty much since day one and if you'd paid much attention over the years, this is what he's known for..neue75_bold
- I, for one, welcome it in this often desolate, opinionless, vapid, jock riding parade...neue75_bold
- at least it starts discussion in what would otherwise be a pointless thread...neue75_bold
- Nostradamus0
But many of the pieces do seem unfinished.
The whopping 6 variations on the "Hoop Nights" logo, all displayed ontop a mish-mash of stolen photography and even more handrawn logos? It's unfocused and amateurish.
Batman -- Again, why show two logos? Trying to prove you've done your homework? Feels student-ish. Were these logos even chosen? Where are they in application, on an actual graphic novel?
ADC Henry Wolf ---...spirograph drawings and intentional typos? Wow what a concept. But did you know that the project was for a PHOTOGRAPHY course? For high school kids? It's an utterly self-serving failure of communication. Nothing about that poster would catch the attention of high schoolers nor communicate something about photography.
ADC Backstory -- "We decided to make some fake books, cause it's called backstory" Oh brilliant...All I see are a bunch of typography experiments mixed together with vector clip art. What's inside the book? A bunch of blank pages? If that's the case, fucking sad waste of paper and a lame, impractical student-like project.
- effort0
7point, there's a difference between valid crit and harsh commentary. calling something "student work" isn't your average "consumer" criticism. it's a loaded phrase that's up there with the harshest designer-to-designer criticisms.
- Nostradamus0
I've already slagged off the Obama poster because it's so shallow and meaningless wank. But what the fuck is he showing off these sketches for? Clients don't want to see him doing his homework. When you work as a professional, that is expected. They're not going to be checking his math (as it were) to see he's doing it correctly.
It's student like.
How about Designers against Tibetan abuse? The "straightforward" purpose of this piece was to "comment on the restrictions and injustices placed on tibet" to prove that "design has the capability to effect change"
Oh yeah, fuckin mission accomplished. You're just winning hearts and minds with this trendwhore nonsense, aren't you? Design for other designers....and nothing more.
- gramme0
Negative critique is all fine and good, by all means let's have it; but what I think a couple people are saying is that perhaps it could be delivered with a bit more candor and less hostile hyperbole. By candor I mean honesty without insult. Give the critique without all the fire, know what I mean?
Just my 2¢.
- it's a bit hard sometimes to not get fired up when you see so many sheep eating this type of work up..neue75_bold
- *eats shit, others..francoisfido
- but whatever, to each his own..neue75_bold
- Well, we all have the option to voice opinions and practice self-control at the same time.gramme
- I'm not saying I'm always an angel in that department by any means.gramme
- gabe0
neue75, i could really care less who you are or who nostradamus is. "pretty much since day one" -- you joined in 05 and he in 09. if you have been paying the least bit of attention over the years, you'd know that was far from day one.
i've been in this business since the beginning (truly the beginning) right alongside ness. i've seen him crank out killer work time after time again for clients you'll never have the privilege of working for. he's earned my respect and rightly so.
yeah, he might have a few pieces in this version of his portfolio that fall into the more trendy category, but damn if i'm going to sit here and watch a bunch of nobodys slag off on someone's work/career just because they have nothing better to do.
- I'm pretty sure Nostradamus = max_prophet = rasko.gramme
- Nobodies? My work has been recognised by Communication Arts Magazine, AIGA, Red Dot, Good Design, Theneue75_bold
- Advertising & Design Club of Canada, Applied Arts Magazine and Coupe Magazine...neue75_bold
- Yeah neue's work is the shit (that's my official critique).gramme
- THE shit. Not shit. Ken ye?gramme
- :)neue75_bold
- so has ness. what's your point?gabe
- *eats shit, crawls under deskfrancoisfido
- lol @ franjimzyk
- 7point340
ah, but that's my very point
we feel the need to be taken seriously and revered in our talent and the skill it takes to produce our work. we have discussions on the intrinsic difference, if any, between art and design and how and why "masters" have achieved what they have achieved. we belittle the people that we have the displeasure of interacting with on a daily basis, though they often are the people we produce work for. we like to assume that it is a subjective and ill-informed reaction when our design is not liked or changed, but it some cases it is very objective just based purely on the knowledge of what sells. we might have beautiful kerning and meticulous detail, but it might not ever be successful outside our ego, or our circle of egos, because no one but us will ever get it.
so then what do we strive for? a compromise? or do we strive to achieve that same mastery and reverence that the "masters" have? people like glasser and rand and bass, among many others that have pieces in art museums. the new art: graphic design. but, doesn't all art then illicit a response? isn't it an underlying theme in all forms of art especially in the 20th century to involve the viewer and invoke a reaction. sometimes it isn't a complimentary reaction, but it is a reaction all the same.
why then attempt to censor or call out someone that has an opinion along those lines to design work? we have plenty of people in this thread who seemingly revere this work, yet it isn't worthy to be subjected to the same scrutiny that any work of modern art would be? what in the world could anything that subjective have to do with what profession or level of talent a person posesses?
now, i have not offered my opinion of this work and i am by no means saying it deserves to be hung in a museum or that it deserves to be blasted on a design forum. in fact, i am purposefully saying nothing about the work as i personally feel i have very little to say about it. i am merely commenting on comments. i am expressing my opinion of this thread and the fact that everyone here is entitled to their opinions regardless of their career. but, then i have no way of representing meta data in a portfolio, so i'm sure you will think my commentary is also invalid.
- interesting and very well put, btwgabe
- well said brother, completely agree..neue75_bold
- gramme0
I fully agree with you 7. My only point above is that critique (good or bad) is great, but being rude is useless, and only muddies the point(s) one tries to make in a critique. It's like using ad hominem attacks in an intellectual debate. It doesn't make anyone appear smarter, and it doesn't help anyone's argument.
- Etype0
I think his stuff is great...
Its visually interesting. At times it does not communicate in exact words what we are looking at. But I think that is part of the work he does, it heavily relies on visual communication instead of written communication.Not sure why people are bashing this work though?
- oh and its scary how close looking his sketches are to my sketching style
Etype
- oh and its scary how close looking his sketches are to my sketching style
- gabe0
i agree 7point—fully agree, actually. but lambasting his work is very different than criticism, or at the lesser end not having anything to say at all.
- lukus_W0
I think decent criticism should lead to an decent amount of insight.
Cutting someone down to vent anger, or to get something off your chest, is selfish and pretty dull. At least as dull as the people who congratulate without thinking.
@7point34;
you mentioned "why do we feel the need to validate everything?" -> basically because an empty opinion isn't worth much. It's the reasons 'why' which are interesting.
- gabe0
btw neue75, my comments are more directed towards nostradamus, not you. saying "it's too busy for me" (which i almost agree with) is much different than calling his work medicore, student-like, and playing "what ifs..." with things like "imagine if he had real client..."
- it's all good, my comments don't actually belong in this thread as they have little to do with the thread subject itself..neue75_bold
- ukit0
I'm all with people giving honest feedback work or no but the angry negativity is unwarranted.
The site might not be perfect but it has an interesting nav concept that I've never seen implemented in exactly this way. How many people even bother trying to come up with something new or different when presenting their work? More likely they just copied what other designers and agencies were doing.
Gotham Narrow is an amazing new font? Oh man I gotta get it.
Single page vertical scrolling portfolio? Yes!
No? Side scrolling portfolio with text in a box? Well alright then *updates site*As far as the style of the actual work, it's not my personal favorite, but it's obviously well-implemented and I'm sure there are people who would like to hire someone to produce work in this style.
- MrDinky0
"where is your portfoli?"
- ukit0
I guess I'm less drawn to any individual work and just the coherence that he brought to the whole project in terms of the presentation of work etc. It's always great to see someone tie it all together like that even if the overall "style" is not your personal favorite, ya know?
- 7point340
"how can it be bullshit to state a preference?"
- high fidelity
- oh I'm sorry... when did this store become a facist regime?!!scottyfivealive
- QBN Reichukit
- Rand0
I wish somebody would swing from my nutsack
- maybe do more digital work?neue75_bold
- Sounds painfulukit
- what is "digital work"?
websites?Rand - i don't know if i want to swing from your nutsack, but your work is gorgeous.effort
- SACK
TIMEgramme - FUCK YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUTRand
- 1, 2, 3...swing!
http://www.youtube.c…ukit
- verstft0
Communication Arts is in a constant state of flux, and so are it's disciplines. I don't think you could get two designers or illustrators in a room and have them agree on what it is that they do. Frankly, none of this really matters. Some will attempt to adapt their design to fit brands and some will sell themselves before the brand. Even architects get into disagreements about form following function; take Frank Gehry for example, his work is ass backwards when it comes to function driving design yet he's a prominent contemporary architect.
So wether you think design should be art, technology, illustration, style, minimalist, maximalist etc... Just realize it's all those things. See what's out there, take what you want, leave the rest and don't proselytize; it's as pointless as talking about religion.
- this seems like a healthy point of view, compatible with long term mental healthRand
- Amen Dizz.... Amensilentseven
- now let's talk about religionRand
- it's all shit, really..neue75_bold
- someone keeps hacking into my account..neue75_bold
- mine tooRand
- effort0
this thread has come full circle. i hope we're all still friends!
- johnny_cartelle0
ness - youre a legend. and it was a fun time in the redlight when you visited a-dam. IAmAlwaysHorny™
you didnt take that lap dance like a student, ill tell you that much.