Science
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- GeorgesIV0
I've re-read some of the message posted here and can't wrap my head around the argument that some people are blaming society for the bad thing derived from science,
I'd like to remind everyone that the point of this thread wasn't really to say science bad, religion good or vice versa,
the point of it was to prove or disprove that the practice of the scientific method unto the unwashed masses (including myself) is a belief system and I think we kinda of forgot about it,
now we can say ad nauseum that science is perfect, that only the mistakes of men makes it flawed, the point still stays that it is our belief in what we can accomplish with it, that makes it good or bad,
it is our belief in the current system and our closed mindedness that keep us from escaping this cage or pseudo rationality,we are the observers and thus what we think effects what we will create, science may be perfect, but we aren't, even if tomorrow somehow we managed to find all the secret to life we'll still fuck it up because it's in our nature to fuck things up and I believe we can't approach the natural world with only a scientific pov,
the thing is I actually don't care if science is a belief system or not, but I just can't stop myself from provoking arguments and rabble, yet I am fascinated by the blind faith you put in the scientific world,
anywyas, I'm going to bed coz I just watched the wolverine, it's late and I'm tired,
ps: I want an Adamantium armor, night
- monNom0
^ the Amish
- scarabin0
tell us about your anti-science organization, yuri
- quick! make something up!scarabin
- I love science. I know its limits..yurimon
- No you don't.monospaced
- inteliboy0
Do about it? Do about Science? What needs to be done? I'm going to absolutely nothing.
- bobkat0
Serious question Yurimon - what have you done to combat abuse of the scientific system? I am not being sarcastic, I seriously want to know how you go about the process of changing it all? It's not like I can switch brands, since most are owned by several conglomerates...everything from food to fuel.
- Actually good question. I tried organizational approach. to much politics and resource issues.yurimon
- I'm thinking my own organization. but I'm stuck on how I could help because I do see it as an education issue primarilyyurimon
- Maybe all post to ask yallyurimon
- Thanks for that. Maybe get in to teaching mate? Start at the grass root level?bobkat
- inteliboy0
You know what else has been abused "politically and militarily"? EVERYTHING. Humanity, economics, nature, culture, belief systems etc etc...
- True, question what you going to do about it?yurimon
- what are you doing about it, yuri?scarabin
- besides pretend it's somehow the result of the scientific methodscarabin
- I' trying to build an organization to help people.yurimon
- what are you trying to do about it? besides smoking crack you bought with bitcoins. lolyurimon
- excuse me?scarabin
- only a cornered dog needs to snap like that. let's stay on topic.scarabin
- do corn dogs have a sense of humor.?yurimon
- why, did you say something funny?scarabin
- Why you got offended?yurimon
- not at allscarabin
- it's just hard to take you seriously when you're making cheesy schoolyard shots instead of actually addressing a topicscarabin
- you started lol...yurimon
- bullshit. everything i've said was related to the topicscarabin
- you're just scratching and kicking because you have no actual valid arguments.scarabin
- I made plenty of valid arguments. you just want to believe.yurimon
- there's nothing to believe when it comes to reason and observationscarabin
- yurimon0
A little better then religion debates.
However science isnt the end all know all. Its has been abused politically and militarily.
Like the whole global warming fiasco. Even though alot of discoveries have been made, big corp interests still keep certain industries in check. like automobile and energy. You should be teleporting already. but you still use gas because you make the Rockefeller's money and they tax the shit out of gas also.Yes it a method but it can also be used as propaganda. and people can believe the fallacies. just like religion trying to control what people do and think. Ideologies and methods change but for the most part your still little serfs in a system kept in check.
- and i can use a spoon outside of its intended purpose to kill a man. that doesn't make spoons bad. the use you're mentioning is a problem of society, not of sciencescarabin
- a problem of society, not of sciencescarabin
- < what scara saidinteliboy
- What are you going to do about it, now that you are so enlightened about this problem?yurimon
- i'm going to do what any scientist would and carefully consider the source and methods used to come to conclusionsscarabin
- What Scarabin says...bobkat
- Not a thing you said changes the fact that science is not a belief system.monospaced
- ESKEMA0
more cool stuff
http://www.wired.com/wiredscienc…
- bobkat0
What a great debate! Just spend several minutes reading this and thoroughly enjoyed the discussion. Now, let me get back to looking at some pics of cats...
- ZOOP0
The subconscious mind is the frontier for undiscovered abilities and knowledge. For instance:
Human perception isn't as limited as many believe. The subconscious can perceive frequencies from the subsonic, to as high as 400,000 hertz.
Hypnotized subjects call recall events in stunning clarity, down to the most minute detail.
What is commonly known is that a person on the verge of death sees their entire life displayed before them in what seems to be an instant.
Discover the purpose for these phenomena and you might have a clearer understanding of what our function truly is.
We may already hold answers to which our current versions of reality aren't prepared to explain, unless our societies can accept fundamental and permanent change.
- i've been on the verge of death multiple times and i didn't see shitscarabin
- http://disinfo.com/2…ZOOP
- I guess the question would be just how close to the verge one really is, and their awareness of such.ZOOP
- Dreams work like this. You can experience what seems like an eternity in what is actually just a fleeting moment.monospaced
- There are dreams, yes, and also real world perceptions held in the subconscious. The rabbit hole is deeeepZOOP
- There is a surprising amount of physiological evidence that explains it though.monospaced
- Chemical releases, neuron firings, etcmonospaced
- you're on a tangent, but here's what I have found; most humans aren't entirely honest with themselvesZOOP
- thus the disconnectZOOP
- I include myself in the latter statement.ZOOP
- ukit20
Vortex math?
- there's always a debunker,
even relativity has his share of debunking,GeorgesIV - if there wasn't debunking and questioning, then it would just be a belief system ;)monospaced
- there's always a debunker,
- monNom0
^ this also goes back to platonic aesthetics. Everything should be simple once distilled to it's fullest. e=mc^2, d=v*t, etc.
Maybe that's just an opinion and that guiding principle causes us to discount solutions that are more complex only because they are complex.
- monNom0
We all know this empirically: When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
So in the case of modern science (particularly the theoretical), when all you have is mathematics, every problem becomes mathematical.
Maybe we're missing the bigger picture as a result of the limitations of our tools?
- GeorgesIV0
^ btw, synchronicity there,
was watching this with my son and the last bit had this quote,
- ESKEMA0
@ Georges
Regarding the vortex math thing, I said that I don't like the dudes because they bring all this religion stuff to their discovery, the name of God and whatnot, and I don't get along with those ideals. But I really think their system is on to something, and I would love that someone else would develop on that, without the god shenanigans.
You say how can we discover new things if the alternatives are shut down, we'll Rodin discovered that, so, I say we can discover things if we want to. It's more difficult without monetary support but nobody is stopping you. The scientific community is not on board with vortex math but some people are, and they are expanding on it right now. They aren't being shut down, they are just being mocked by other people, and ignored by others. But if true amazing findings based on top of their work is eventually used, then they will be accepted, because there will be evidence.
I agree that alternatives theories should get more credit, but when you are investing money, you want it to have return, and if you just give money to every alternative idea, you'll go bankrupt in no time.
- but why can't we have both?
why can't enlighten like gurdjeff should be disrespectedGeorgesIV - btw do you know how many billions of your money is spent on finding ways to kill people? last time I check was 53c to a $GeorgesIV
- you can, but if something doesn't look right to the most people, then you can't blame them for not following. ThatESKEMA
- doesn't mean he's wrong. Just that others think he's wrong. Galileo was the only one believing in the round earth..ESKEMA
- who are most people? this is where I usually start with the C.T and social engineering but I'll give up, the subject is too bigGeorgesIV
- Eskema this is actually not true, most educated people at that time knew the earth was round,GeorgesIV
- But just believing in borderline stuff like that, without proofs is the same as religion. It's faith.ESKEMA
- http://en.wikipedia.…
GeorgesIV - nope, I didn't believe a joule thief could work, so I ordered the pieces and made one for myself, why should I wait for others to confirm what I'm bringing forth, after all I don't care what anyone thinksGeorgesIV
- confirm what I'm bringing forth, after all I don't care what anyone thinksGeorgesIV
- well OK, but you get point.ESKEMA
- do you know the history of most science fields that are accepted now, but where borderline e.g: washing your handsGeorgesIV
- if there's no one to dispute and disprove those ideas, it's just the same as saying you'll go to hell if you're badGeorgesIV
- but that's just normal evolution...ESKEMA
- It has to make sense for someone to get on board of something, I wouldn't want to work on something I didn't believe in (well I kinda do, andESKEMA
- I don't like it). People will only work on those borderline projects if they are passionate about them. Passioante toESKEMA
- make them work or passionate to discredit them. And I see npthing wrong with that.ESKEMA
- *INSERT NOTE 15.5
... like, well I kinda do and...ESKEMA - no, I think that's where we differ, people will work on borderline ideas if there's a budget, you should look up a little bit more the scientific dogmas, often just coming out with a different theory will get you black listed,GeorgesIV
- more the scientific dogmas, often just coming out with a different theory will get you black listed,GeorgesIV
- I meant that when there is no budget, because of it being borderline, you need passion to work on it..ESKEMA
- Borderline will never have budget most of the time.ESKEMA
- except if it has military purpose, then the budget is there... sigh.GeorgesIV
- but why can't we have both?
- GeorgesIV0
WE SHOULD ALREADY BE ON ALPHA CENTAURI FFS!!
- GeorgesIV0
@ Eskema, I agree with what you say, but how is that not a belief system, I'll quote you
"...vortex math (because it just makes a lot of sense, needs to get more development in, and other dudes speaking because Rodin and Powell talk like idiots, and this discovery is well above themselves). ..."
then you say this
"What I think people are condoning is the "Church" of science, the institution, the powers that pseudo "control" it. In the end it's just Humans.
But science is not just that, it's the exploration of the imagination, the search for the undiscovered and the unexplained. "but how can we discover anything if everytime someone comes out with an alternative theory he's shot down?
have you ever heard of the electric universe, it makes a lot more sense then our current universe theories, but because an expert hasn't come out and said it should be taken serioulsy, it is still fringe, this is what I've been trying to say about the belief system,
- it's not belief simply because science is open and welcome to change and criticism, it's anythign but dogmaticmonospaced
- so shooting down one idea in favor of a better one is science, as opposed to belief where it doesn't budge.monospaced
- I guess?monospaced
- utopian0
When Galileo proclaimed that the earth orbits the sun, the Pope put him under house arrest for spreading an idea contrary to Catholic dogma. A later Pope tried to heal this rift between science and theology by directing the construction of an observatory within the Vatican.
Today, the Vatican Observatory is staffed by Jesuit astronomers. One of their missions is to search for evidence of extraterrestrial life.
