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OK just gonna come clean here:
I made this thread because a classmate of mine who is by no means the most talented in my program or most experienced in design landed a Marketing Director job with a 40K starting salary.
I was under the impression that it would take 3-7 years in the industry to get to this place. But apparently not? This is a person with maybe 3 years experience at the most, that's including our 2 year program. One skill he does have that all my classmates agree on is that he is a compulsive liar, so I was wondering if that played a part in it. Having a good portfolio is great but it seems like being able to bullshit at length about SEO, analytics, social media marketing, and blah blah blah is the most important skill in this industry.
- console yourself with the fact that apparently, they are just handing out "director" roles to anyone these days.ben_
- Ignore the title. 40K indicates all you need to know. It’s an entry level gig.Gnash
- You buddy was dumb enough to go for title over a proper salary. Don’t make the same mistakeGnash
- He will survive for a few years maybe a decade at mediocre places but after a certain level nobody will work with him.sted
- Entry level salary, but so early in career with the puffy title will help land next gig w/ more $$$ + similar or higher title. he def got a leg up with thatBrokenHD
- If he sux, he'll just hafta job hop a lot, til it catches up with him. OR.. he'll learn what he needs to be a successful chameleon and be fine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯BrokenHD
- My advice dont lie, but if they hand u the puffy title, you take it and runBrokenHD
- so you lied? no one believes anything you've said now.imbecile
- @eighteen, you seem a little young to be so jaded.futurefood
- Wait 10+ years..futurefood
- Eighteens been on here for 11 years. Something's fishy.ben_
- Take the pay as proof it is just a title at what is likely a small company. Experienced Directors whether creative or marketing usually paid well into 6 figuresDarkCover
What?? 40K is a low salary??
Sorry but until I went to college being paid anything above minimum wage was out of the question. I haven't really prepared for marketing myself for salary positions and I never had a conversation about wages in college with any of my professors. But maybe I should, because I assumed ANY job with any salary would be a win coming straight out of college.
I'm applying for a Senior Graphic Designer job right now because it's one of the only opportunities in my small city. Indeed.com estimates the wage at 50-60K. It's a longshot but worth it for that opportunity. Every other "design" job in my town though advertises $20/hour at best.
Until some of my classmates got hired I did not even dream of landing a salary position with my amount of experience (2 years). Maybe that's partly my fault for not setting my sights high enough. I'm also not in a major city, which I'm guessing most of you are and are gauging the job market there as your basis for salary expectations.
- How much your salary is worth depends on the cost of living in your area, $40k in NYC isn't the same as in Biloxi.zarkonite
- Minimum wage is up to $15/hr an hour in some places. So if you have an education and skills, you should be worth triple that.omahadesigns
Boris lied. Now he's the Prime Minister of the UK. Just go to show how far you can get lying your ass off.
From what I've seen, you can do this, first move to a new city. Moving from one city to the next will help you lie. Canadians can and do this well in the states because they fool everyone thinks their "nice" and therefore honest. List agencies that may have closed recently, fake some ads in from Germany, tell them you did an internship there for 6 months in Frankfurt. List obtuse awards. Show big ideas super simple. Wear nice clothes to any interview. Advertising is all about lying. G'luck
This isn't "bullshitting". It doesn't matter that you think everyone else is doing it. Making up experience is lying, and fraud, and will get you found out and fired and remembered.
Older designers like me will see through it right quick in your work and how you act and call your bitch ass out in front of everyone. Frankly I cant fucking wait for such a chance.
Do hard work and suck it up.
- Why not do both? I'm not talking about straight up lying here just stretching the truth and leveraging marketing knowledge for personal gain.eighteen
- Actually fuck it idk what I'm talking about.eighteen
- though I appreciate your candoreighteen
I definitely titled this thread incorrectly
It doesn't happen only in advertising. I think you're talking about salesmen, not necessarily "bullshitters" although they can fall under the same category as well.
I currently work with someone who went from being a Product Analyst making 70K to Product Manager at 120K, and having his own office (we work in an open space) in only 6 fucking months. He came from a financial background with no experience in web development. All that because he is a great salesman.
- Ok apparently I'm under a different impression of what salary I should be expecting, 40K seemed like a lot to me....LOLeighteen
- Eighteen, see Sagamiester & Walsh thread for how to get a head in advertising...robotron3k
- Thanks robo but im not a bitter old man yet XDeighteen
- getting there though...eighteen
I do advertising and there's no need to lie.
If you have talent, you'll succeed.
If you want a lot of money. Don't go into advertising.
Any success ive ever had in my life has come from putting aside what i feel others have achieved and just focussing passionately on my own work. I mean, truly focussing on it.
I'd like to understand what you're talking about, what kind of bullshit have you seen? I've been in this biz for over 15 years and the old adage of money talks, bullshit walks is still true.
If you lie about your skills, you'll burn because you won't deliver results. If you're genuine about your experience you'll set the right expectations and be praised when you do a good job. And when you actually get better, that will be noticed. If you pretend to be better than you are, you won't look like you're progressing and that's going to make the higher ups wary of investing their time in you.
Get a mentor or find a work environment where you can learn from senior people.
Do you want to be a bullshit artist?
- Well, no. I want to approach my work with genuine passion because that's what translates into good work.eighteen
- That being said I've just started a part-time contract in advertising, creating content for marketing. So i think bullshit should play a subtle role in my work.eighteen
- And then apply said bullshit to the marketing of my own work and qualifications.eighteen
- Step 1. Learn the rules.
Step 2. Break said rules.ideaist
- Do loads of cocaine. You'll be talking shite with the best of them by lunchtime. Concepts galore.PhanLo
- pay for soho house membership, hang out with the other successful workshy ad wankers, get the right connections.shapesalad
- @shapesalad I'm looking for a job what makes you think I can afford a $2000 club membership?eighteen
- lol, I will co-sign, soho house is a waste of your time and money. full stop, ain't what it used to be.ben_
I think it is wrong. It is a small world out there. Making up experience will bite you in the butt if you try to get away with it.
- but how do I win the BIG SALARY job??eighteen
- I have classmates who strolled into a salary position straight out of college (not even) through sheer force of bullshittingeighteen
- Stop applying for shitty jobs?zarkonite
Obviously networking is key here, I get it. Quality of work means nothing, its all an illusion. I'm just wondering how far I should stretch the truth when I apply for a job that asks for "10 years experience in the marketing world" when I only have 2 at best.
if you're going in to advertising you may as well start with a lie, you're gonna end up with one anyway.
Someone posted a good article here about this once.
It was written by a similarly bitter professional complaining about the industry being populated by "bullshitters". People who say all the right things, use all the right words, but when it comes down to actual work they are mediocre at best.
This actually works, I'm witnessing it firsthand right now. Concerning myself with other's success is not helpful, I understand that. But I'd like to gain insight into how lying plays a role in getting, and maintaining a job in advertising. Maybe monospaced is right, and these people will fail at the jobs they've charmed their way into, but I still can't help but feel that increasing my bullshit skills can only help me, if I maintain genuine skills to (MOSTLY) back up the bullshit.
- let's face it though ... in advertising, most skills are bullshit anyway and it's hard to be called out on anymonospaced
- and increasing your bullshit skill will definitely help in the advertising worldmonospaced
- Chances are ... you won't actually be bullshitting when you start writing those bullet points on your résumé. I get the feeling your'e too humble.monospaced
- Thanks but the industry I'm in is godless.eighteen
- Btw is this guy looking for an animator? :Peighteen
- it's your personal responsibility, not god's, not the industries'shoes
- The industry rewards lying though, the whole point of advertising is to create an illusion. I think lying is an important skill to have.eighteen
- "Btw is this guy looking for an animator? :P" You might joke - but it's acting on ideas like that that gets you good work and a good name. Why not try?Nairn
"Is this wrong? I'm learning that the world is full of bullshit artists and I'm trying to get a competitive edge. If I just make up my experience what is the worst that could happen?".
- Trust is everything, so your network is everything.Nairn
- Exactly. How do I compete with this bullshit if I'm not bullshitting myself as much as possible??eighteen
- The minute you're found out as a fraud, you've lost that person. Of course, there are lots of people...Nairn
- Hopefully your work and references count for you. You can't fix the system, so you can either play the game to your best, or as a bastard. Choose wisely.Nairn
- Thanks Nairn, I have moderate references right now hopefully that helps me.eighteen
- Honestly I'm just having a mini personal crisis right now because I'm seeing my classmates reach success with seemingly no efforteighteen
- Sadly you'll come to realise that luck has a large play in all this. Sure, you can work hard and "make your own luck" but sometimes, you'll just be unlucky.Nairn
- Right. I mean, I've had a good amount of luck too. I need to focus on my own career, and try not to get discouraged by other's luck.eighteen
- Comparing your own with other people's success is.. something we all cannot help but do.. but is best avoided. Poison lies that way.Nairn
how long have you been at it?