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Is this wrong? I'm learning that the advertising world is full of bullshit artists and I'm trying to get a competitive edge. If I just make up my experience what is the worst that could happen?
I think it is wrong. It is a small world out there. Making up experience will bite you in the butt if you try to get away with it.
- but how do I win the BIG SALARY job??eighteen
- I have classmates who strolled into a salary position straight out of college (not even) through sheer force of bullshittingeighteen
- Stop applying for shitty jobs?zarkonite
how long have you been at it?
"Is this wrong? I'm learning that the world is full of bullshit artists and I'm trying to get a competitive edge. If I just make up my experience what is the worst that could happen?".
- Trust is everything, so your network is everything.Nairn
- Exactly. How do I compete with this bullshit if I'm not bullshitting myself as much as possible??eighteen
- The minute you're found out as a fraud, you've lost that person. Of course, there are lots of people...Nairn
- Hopefully your work and references count for you. You can't fix the system, so you can either play the game to your best, or as a bastard. Choose wisely.Nairn
- Thanks Nairn, I have moderate references right now hopefully that helps me.eighteen
- Honestly I'm just having a mini personal crisis right now because I'm seeing my classmates reach success with seemingly no efforteighteen
- Sadly you'll come to realise that luck has a large play in all this. Sure, you can work hard and "make your own luck" but sometimes, you'll just be unlucky.Nairn
- Right. I mean, I've had a good amount of luck too. I need to focus on my own career, and try not to get discouraged by other's luck.eighteen
- Comparing your own with other people's success is.. something we all cannot help but do.. but is best avoided. Poison lies that way.Nairn
Obviously networking is key here, I get it. Quality of work means nothing, its all an illusion. I'm just wondering how far I should stretch the truth when I apply for a job that asks for "10 years experience in the marketing world" when I only have 2 at best.
- Thanks but the industry I'm in is godless.eighteen
- Btw is this guy looking for an animator? :Peighteen
- it's your personal responsibility, not god's, not the industries'shoes
- The industry rewards lying though, the whole point of advertising is to create an illusion. I think lying is an important skill to have.eighteen
- "Btw is this guy looking for an animator? :P" You might joke - but it's acting on ideas like that that gets you good work and a good name. Why not try?Nairn
Any success ive ever had in my life has come from putting aside what i feel others have achieved and just focussing passionately on my own work. I mean, truly focussing on it.
The worst that could happen is that you're hired because of a skill or experience you lied about, and are then immediately expected to reproduce it. Has happened to someone I know and it did not turn out well.
Someone posted a good article here about this once.
It was written by a similarly bitter professional complaining about the industry being populated by "bullshitters". People who say all the right things, use all the right words, but when it comes down to actual work they are mediocre at best.
This actually works, I'm witnessing it firsthand right now. Concerning myself with other's success is not helpful, I understand that. But I'd like to gain insight into how lying plays a role in getting, and maintaining a job in advertising. Maybe monospaced is right, and these people will fail at the jobs they've charmed their way into, but I still can't help but feel that increasing my bullshit skills can only help me, if I maintain genuine skills to (MOSTLY) back up the bullshit.
- let's face it though ... in advertising, most skills are bullshit anyway and it's hard to be called out on anymonospaced
- and increasing your bullshit skill will definitely help in the advertising worldmonospaced
- Chances are ... you won't actually be bullshitting when you start writing those bullet points on your résumé. I get the feeling your'e too humble.monospaced
if you're going in to advertising you may as well start with a lie, you're gonna end up with one anyway.
What are you trying to do?
There are a lot of crap "agencies" that come up with "strategy" and them produce poorly designed materials.
In my experience, people are generally impressed by famous clients you've worked with. So say you worked somewhere that had Microsoft as a client. Even if you didn't do anything good for them or just helped out the team making new Office icons, that will go further than your work designing a cool coffee shop. Unless you want to do more bars / coffee shops.
So just stretch the truth of your role at previous jobs and you'll be fine.
But don't lie about working a place you didn't or whatever.
Do you want to be a bullshit artist?
- Well, no. I want to approach my work with genuine passion because that's what translates into good work.eighteen
- That being said I've just started a part-time contract in advertising, creating content for marketing. So i think bullshit should play a subtle role in my work.eighteen
- And then apply said bullshit to the marketing of my own work and qualifications.eighteen
- Step 1. Learn the rules.
Step 2. Break said rules.ideaist
- Do loads of cocaine. You'll be talking shite with the best of them by lunchtime. Concepts galore.PhanLo
- pay for soho house membership, hang out with the other successful workshy ad wankers, get the right connections.shapesalad
- @shapesalad I'm looking for a job what makes you think I can afford a $2000 club membership?eighteen
- lol, I will co-sign, soho house is a waste of your time and money. full stop, ain't what it used to be.ben_
"Keeping up with the Jones'" is a loosing battle.
The Jones's are cunts, and it's irrelevant to keep up with them; personally and/or professionally.
Learn the rules for a 1/2 decade or so, break said rule(s) and try to get yourself into an/any industry where your work/life satisfaction is sufficient to continue working/living.
I'd like to understand what you're talking about, what kind of bullshit have you seen? I've been in this biz for over 15 years and the old adage of money talks, bullshit walks is still true.
If you lie about your skills, you'll burn because you won't deliver results. If you're genuine about your experience you'll set the right expectations and be praised when you do a good job. And when you actually get better, that will be noticed. If you pretend to be better than you are, you won't look like you're progressing and that's going to make the higher ups wary of investing their time in you.
Get a mentor or find a work environment where you can learn from senior people.
"What's the worst that could happen?"
Apparently, You could become President of the United States!
/\ LOL, seriously.
But (really) seriously if you have to lie on your c.v. you need to work harder, meet more people, practice your craft more, learn to sell yourself. Sure it's a political industry and often frustrating as hell, but what industry isn't?
Also, just a caution on the Toronto market, it's small so be careful and try to at least make your bullshit believable.
From what I've seen, you can do this, first move to a new city. Moving from one city to the next will help you lie. Canadians can and do this well in the states because they fool everyone thinks their "nice" and therefore honest. List agencies that may have closed recently, fake some ads in from Germany, tell them you did an internship there for 6 months in Frankfurt. List obtuse awards. Show big ideas super simple. Wear nice clothes to any interview. Advertising is all about lying. G'luck
I do advertising and there's no need to lie.
If you have talent, you'll succeed.
If you want a lot of money. Don't go into advertising.
Boris lied. Now he's the Prime Minister of the UK. Just go to show how far you can get lying your ass off.
OK just gonna come clean here:
I made this thread because a classmate of mine who is by no means the most talented in my program or most experienced in design landed a Marketing Director job with a 40K starting salary.
I was under the impression that it would take 3-7 years in the industry to get to this place. But apparently not? This is a person with maybe 3 years experience at the most, that's including our 2 year program. One skill he does have that all my classmates agree on is that he is a compulsive liar, so I was wondering if that played a part in it. Having a good portfolio is great but it seems like being able to bullshit at length about SEO, analytics, social media marketing, and blah blah blah is the most important skill in this industry.
- console yourself with the fact that apparently, they are just handing out "director" roles to anyone these days.ben_
- Ignore the title. 40K indicates all you need to know. It’s an entry level gig.Gnash
- You buddy was dumb enough to go for title over a proper salary. Don’t make the same mistakeGnash
- He will survive for a few years maybe a decade at mediocre places but after a certain level nobody will work with him.sted
- Entry level salary, but so early in career with the puffy title will help land next gig w/ more $$$ + similar or higher title. he def got a leg up with thatBrokenHD
- If he sux, he'll just hafta job hop a lot, til it catches up with him. OR.. he'll learn what he needs to be a successful chameleon and be fine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯BrokenHD
- My advice dont lie, but if they hand u the puffy title, you take it and runBrokenHD
- so you lied? no one believes anything you've said now.imbecile
- @eighteen, you seem a little young to be so jaded.futurefood
- Wait 10+ years..futurefood
- Eighteens been on here for 11 years. Something's fishy.ben_
- Take the pay as proof it is just a title at what is likely a small company. Experienced Directors whether creative or marketing usually paid well into 6 figuresDarkCover