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Stay out of this. This will only blow up in your face and there is nothing to gain for you other than saving some imagined young women.
People use power to advance in life - that's how the world works. Likewise, others chose to engage with said powers or disengage (with the possibility of losing out as you bring up this possibility yourself). There is nothing you can do other than simply gain more power so his power doesn't affect you.
My ex gf in her youth while inspiring to be an actress was wooed by an Oscar wining director. Sexual things have happened and although the experience has left a mark of disgust in her, she also admitted that she has grown from the encounter. We basically don't know how things turn out until they do happen. We can only presume what might happen to those young naive women but reality it's a bit more complex. You are dealing with adults so let them make their own decisions/mistakes.
- WAIT, WHAT in the actual fuck are you on about?!lvl_13
- the fuck?Fax_Benson
- Haha. You're a ratbag.HAYZ1LLLA
- Every time I re-read this post, I can't believe what I'm reading.
Judging by this, you're a fucking caveman,Continuity
- wtf? gtfo pr2 you piece of shitLMFAO
- who is this asshole?Instagram
- what a foolsonnnde
Tar and Feather the fucker (I read your FB post this morning)...
Don't leave him out there to keep doing this to other women. If you have the consistent proof that he's a piece of shit... take his ass down.
And tell him... like all Superbowl commercials... his sucked too. :)
Remeber when i pushed this thread 9 months ago before #metoo? Where's the reckoning in our industry? it's been oddly quiet but they're no better than Hollywood.
- I've questioned whether or not this will trickle-down through other industries outside of Hollywood / Politics (here on QBN)... and got DVed for it...PonyBoy
- ... perhaps because I was specific to the Hip Hop side of the music industry... regardless it's fucking time this shit stopped everywhere.PonyBoy
- man i saw singe xmas party photos that agencies should be ashamed if this year.shellie
- That actually would make a great tumblr page, sketchy agency pics...robotron3k
- What would constitute a "reckoning"? Kinda vague.cannonball1978
- cannon, i'd call a reckoning at this point, just about anyone notable going down. It's just impossible these guys are all angels. All my experiences were inshellie
- ad industry specifically. That's surprising even to me, considering I stated in and now work again on music on the business side with no harassment problems.shellie
Is there a way to post the messages to you and other victims anonymously?
- There is power in numbers, so it would be good to have the others agree to anonymously share the harassment somehow.instrmntl
- I think lots of sexual harrassment will end because of this, but also will promotions for women and trust of women will change immensely.robotron3k
- by this, i mean the #MeToo movementrobotron3k
IMO this is a tough one. Especially if you no longer work for the company or rely on the company for freelance. Notifying HR is not always the best choice. The point being all employees work for the company and Human Resources IS actually the company. Notifying them put you on the radar more than the guy and they want to protect themselves from lawsuits from you first, not him. So just be aware if you do, as you're going to have to regurgitate all the things he's done over again and send in evidence to the HR dept. All if which would be awkward af. Even if you ask HR for advice on the side, it's still going to be executed as a written complaint. So be aware.
Another thing, if this guy has charge of a big, high level account, and in with the client, you may not have a chance in hell, as it's dollars to the agency and that's what makes the world go around. (IMO, It will be almost impossible if the account is worth multimillion dollars and he goes drinking with the client...)
As he's counting on you to follow the rules and play by his game and it allows him to textually harass you. There are so many ways to get back at him, I think you need to think out of the box... like start a facebook group of mutual friends or have your boyfriend call him, or befriend his girlfriend, stuff like that...
- yeah this...sucks but this.
got a feeling you'll have to go around the houses to get so much dirt on him.
- my boyfriend offered to reach out to his fiance. i dont know about that. there can be social fallout from such a move.shellie
- & yes this is a big, multi million dollar account and this would be extremely embarrassing. I'm certain there's a pile of women that have the same story.shellie
- i don't stand a chance against their gaggle of lawyers.shellie
- reminds me of that scene in Network "The World is a Business" https://youtu.be/8jI…robotron3k
- This is awful advice. You're telling her to not bother because it might not achieve anything and he's good for bottom line? Really living up to reputation robo.monospaced
- HR is counting on this guy to follow the rules and play the game, and he's not. You should never be afraid to go to HR, and nobody should tell you to be.monospaced
- If anything this allows HR to address the issue and protect themselves from future lawsuits. Don't be bullied by a man into being too scared to speak up.monospaced
- If you go personal on this, contact his family or friends, then he really would have a reason to not take you seriously.monospaced
- I'm telling her to be aware of her outing him IF there is big money involved and i'm suggesting she think outside the box in terms of gaining "revenge"robotron3k
- shellie has to do something but a straight out play which might rock the company. This might have the company protecting itself.
So Shellie has to make sure..mugwart
- ... she is safe before making a move.mugwart
- I feel like you're telling her that she can't trust HR or other authorities, and should do something totally shady, which I personally think is bad advice.monospaced
- Because of the high amount of money involved in the org that allows this asshole to operate like this. Feh.monospaced
- I'm only say be cautions. A lot of peoples experiences with HR is that they protect their company first. As prick is a major player they might try to cover upmugwart
- yeah this...sucks but this.
Ask a friend to pay him a visit.
Is he CD at the company you work for? or just a company you know of?
Tar and Feather the c*nt!
Start with screenshots of your (and friends) messenger messages from him if you still have them. Make them into posters and stick them around the office and forward them to too with the story behind it.
What a knob and his poor fiancee. She needs to know.
- Im a vendor on record, nor a staff employee. I originally met him at another agency. The world is small. We've crossed like that many times.shellie
- His fisnce couldn't know him very well cos i caught his creep vibe day 1.shellie
- This guy is in LA and you are in NY, do you rely on him for getting projects?robotron3k
- i have never rely on him for projects but I do work for the agency. Most of my ad work comes from LA. Most of my entertainment work comes from NY.shellie
- thats not to say that he couldn't make a fuss and get in the way of contracts I want to bid on. & we haven't been assigned to the same projects but we could.shellie
- There's also the fact that he could be gone in a couple years and get a job at any of the other agencies I work with. We've crossed at other agencies before.shellie
- I'm not going to avoid whole agencies because there's one person I don't like there. That would be foolish and even dumber for my bank account.shellie
I assume this guy is still employed in an agency, and not freelancing? If not, take it up with the agency's Managing Director. See what happens.
Is the agency in question relatively well-known in the broader industry (not just in the States)? Because if it is, then I would suggest the following if the MD of the shop pretends everything is cool:
1) Take the offending messages to the cops, and have him charged with harassment (which should be done in any case), and;
2) Scoop the big industry trade journals (double-check the legality of it) with said messages. I'm sure AdAge & Co would have a field day, if the agency in question is well-enough known.
I look forward to reading about to shitstorm. :D
- *about _the_ shitstormContinuity
- And I might also add: this situation sucks from beginning to end, and I'm REALLY sorry you're going through that. No-one should have to tolerate that.Continuity
- Oh wow. Attention on fb and here seems like a lot. I can't imagine publishing a legit industry rag story. But if the other womenshellie
- Spoke up too it would be huge. One is a very sr producer and one is now an exect for a huge game publisher.shellie
- The thing is, this really is a hot topic in the industry right now, and the more voices like yours that go out into the public eye, the better, in my view.Continuity
- And also with the cops: I don't know what it's like wherever you are, but I know in Canada and here in Germany, this is a criminal offence.Continuity
- What he's doing, I mean.Continuity
- its too nuanced for criminal offense I think. He says my "face is sex" and he'll "venmo me ho" and im a "slut" hes not saying he will rape me or he's outsideshellie
- my window.shellie
- i've seen that things like stalking cases in the united states (unattached to a business or work situation) is hard to get traction on.shellie
- you're right but notifying the police helps them build a case if it escalates. Patterns of behaviours are important in convicting someone. He'll have a mark onzarkonite
- his file and if it happens a lot they can take the next step. I filed a complaint for assault once and I wasn't the first one and it led to some consequenceszarkonite
- even though I didn't have material proof of the assault.zarkonite
So, Shellz, I assume you've slept on the situation ... what're you going to do next?
Thi whole thread is fucked up
In regards to bklyndroobek'si comment ^
He's more than likely on the psycho spectrum, If you've seen or read any lectures by Dr Kevin Dutton (oxford uni), you'll see his findings:
Media + Sales = Ad agency = large number of high functioning psychos.
I think all that have worked in the AD and media industry have come across some pretty nasty/creepy fellows who's behaviour has been incomprehensible, when you take on board Dr Kevin Dutton's research it all starts to make sense.
- In one of his lectures he said if you find out that you're married to a psycho, even if they are a high functioning successful person, CEO etc, you should leavefruitsalad
- immediately, and not look back. The condition ultimately means they don't feel emotions like normal people.fruitsalad
- I am a sociopath, I have no feelings, like Dexter. But I do not murder, cos it's bad.robthelad
Expose that peice of shit. I know it's a tricky one having the attention put on you for exposing him. Maybe have a friend do it under the guise of you not particularly wanting to...
LOL.. i thought this thread was going to
Sexual Harassment in Advance
From my experience with a friend, HR couldn't do anything as the communications were not via work channels (aka in work place, work email etc). There is so many procedures that they have to follow, and are their to protect the firms reputation.
Maybe talk to them off the record without telling names first.
That said you much follow your heart and do what you think is right. Ive seen sexism on both sides and its a fucking disgrace.
I'd get the other girls together collate all the messages of communications and track his finance down. She has to know at least. This could be done anonymously as well. Once this has done the damage I would then move into the firm.
Another thing to take into account is how protected he is with this firm, i call it the funny handshake. (I'm from an old uk family so i say it a lot growing up.) be he one or not - he sounds very protected by the firm.
I have seen a lot of weird shit in my time so above all make sure your extremely paranoid and cover all your bases before you make your play.
Let us know if you need help.
Another idea is to go on the dark web and get a hacker. get as much dirt on him as possible. then take it to him and ask him to stop.
Be careful in how you approach this. For sure consult an attorney so you can see what you can leverage but make sure you understand any recourse that will be available to him and be prepared for any fallout as the result of a public shaming.
Anything equivalent to a slap on the wrist might not teach him (or other offenders) and only serve to further exacerbate the issue between you two and possibly cause irreparable damage to your career. (who knows who else he's buddies with in the industry that you'd want to work with that might side with him.)
Maybe a (anonymous) letter to AdAge detailing the situation?
Btw, I didn't believe until recently that men actually harass women with dick pics and apparently no amount of retaliation deters them. What the hell is wrong with my gender?
- Im afraid of the backlash, even if u take the highest road to some sort of action about this. That's my biggest fear and what keeps other women silent.shellie
- I know and I'm sorry you're in this situation. :/SteveJobs
- Take the low road. Grind him down slowly. Start messing with him. Low key stuff, such as Craigslist AD offering ladyboy service, direct to his number etc.fruitsalad
- Try to always inject a joke about his small member when in meetings. Loudly make a joke in his presence how he wanted to show it to you, but you didn't havefruitsalad
- your microscope handy.fruitsalad
- Leave a small cocktail frankfurter outside his office door everyday. Just subtly drop it on your way past in the morning.fruitsalad
- Print out those messages he sent and post them in the ladies toilets at work. Make sure everyone female in that office knows what he really is like.fruitsalad
Shellie, one more argument in favour of taking this to the industry journals:
Obviously, your first choice is to go to the proper channels — in this case, straight to the managing director. This is happening under his watch (I;m assuming it's a 'him'). It's the reputation of his agency that's on the line and — by extension — his own. It's in his best interest to deal with your case swiftly and decisively.
If he doesn't — and it wouldn't surprise me if he decides your case hasn't got merit — then he is automatically complicit. It would be a tacit endorsement of this CD's behaviour, which must absolutely be called out.
I understand that this is a deeply hurtful and menacing situation which you would like to be able to glide through without a confrontation that will break you and lead to nothing ... but really — as a woman — you can't sit there and be silent. Your silence will be an allowance for this kind of shit to continue throughout the industry.
You have a really golden opportunity, here, to further the cause of women not just in advertising, but everywhere they work, regardless of the industry.
A caveat to this story: i'm a vendor on record and ive done work for them in the past. I run my own company. Im not a staff employee and Im not a regular in office agency freelancer. Which is why the HR approach see.s less viable. I'm basically an outside vendor and i do not have any projects currently running with the agency. Since he's been hired, he's never been assigned to any of my projects. I don't think i have the same rights as just a regular citizen against some Facebook messages and texts. He does clearly list his agency and position publically on all his social media outlets, so he's representing the company there. I could pitch and potentially win large contacts with this agency, which i may do now just to see if im rejected. He may or may not be able to help or stop me in that respect. I don't know the inner workings of the agency that intimately. But if they don't give me a job i may have some extra leverage.
Im going to consult a lawyer about this. I have a friend looking for resources in California since he and the agency are in LA. I have recently relocated to NY.
I'm real sorry to hear you have to go through that bullshit.
Coming from a sr manager position at a large corporation, you are protected when bringing this to the attention of HR. That is to say, if HR and this person aren't part of some bullshit corporate alliance. I know for a fact at my last company HR took a claim from a woman I know seriously and fired the offending person the next day. However, I've also heard of a few large companies that have fired the person making the claim for some pretty b.s. reasons. If you know some of (or the) person who leads your HR department and are comfortable and confident they're legit, bring your documentation and claim to them immediately.
- great advice... that internal 'corporate alliance' shit can be hell to cut throughPonyBoy
- "bullshit corporate alliance" also means drinking buddies? :Dsted
- last time I did something similar they turned the case against me saying that i'm racist lol.new ceo wanted to fill the place with cheap workforce from indiasted
- and they where some high level assholes with zero office culture.sted