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Pinning your anti-global warming argument on whether temperatures are going up or not isn't a very good one when you look over the past 100 years.
Or to take a longer view:
So this is the point where you shift arguments and say, well yea sure, but how do we know it's because of humans, it could just as well be because of energy from the sun/ natural cyclical change/ Al Gore's evil plan to dominate the Earth/ some other random untested theory.
But it seems like a hell of a coincidence that that spike happened over the same period that humans started burning fuel, building factories, driving cars etc.
This (pretend) debate over man's effect on climate will go on forever. The oil & coal industries will make sure of that.
The debate about whether or not we need to act is over. There's way too much evidence saying we need to cut emissions right now.
People who have been posting that BBC article seem to have missed this part...
"In addition, say Met Office scientists, temperatures have never increased in a straight line, and there will always be periods of slower warming, or even temporary cooling.
What is crucial, they say, is the long-term trend in global temperatures. And that, according to the Met office data, is clearly up."
What is the worst that could happen? We pay more for power and pollute less? BFD
i asked you what global tax you were referring to?
as for what is happening in the developing world.. have you heard about clean development mechanisms? adaptation funds?
- yeah, the IMF got the of debt too, don't you see that this is another way to impoverish those country. read the rolling stones article because the countries that will actuallyGeorgesII
- Stone article because not a single country will benefit, it will be just as old time, if you're rich you can keep on polluting as long as you payGeorgesII
- wasting ressources, wtv, in a long term you'll see that its not a viable plan. The tax is called Carbon taxGeorgesII
The basic science behind global warming is pretty indisputable. It's on a level with "the Earth is round," rotates around the Sun etc.
The amount of carbon, methane and other greenhouse gases in the atmosphere determines the temperature of the planet. You can look at other planets that have less greenhouse gases and are not hospitable to life. There were also periods in the past where there was a much higher amount in the atmosphere and the Earth was warmer - ie, dinosaur era.
The only question is whether humans are able to influence that at all by polluting. I would love it if it turned out not to be true, but right now if you listen to what mainstream scientists are saying, they think it is. But ultimately, I don't see why ending use of oil wouldn't be a good thing, there are so many political and economic benefits that could be gained from that.
There are cynics on both sides of the argument that will totally screw up an otherwise important debate.
Myself...I am a bit of a sceptic when it comes to climate change. For every person who says there is less polar ice now than in previous years, I'll show you someone who states there maybe less older ice, but much more new ice than for a long time.
Whether climate change exists or not, there's a good argument for cleaning up our act. Surely mankind is "smart" enough to develop energy producing technologies that don't pollute. Even if it just means breating cleaner air, I'm all for that.
But, on the other side, this needs to be done rationally otherwise it's going to lead to far more problems than we think.
I don't see how that really matters raf, there are people on both ends who stand to benefit obviously.
On one hand you have - Al Gore and three of his Wall Street buddies planning to invest in the market for carbon offsets.
On the other - the oil industry.
Now which of these two groups do you think has slightly more money, influence, ability to twist the public debate?
Al Gore couldn't even get himself elected President after he won the election. Something tells me it's a bit of a stretch he could convince 90+% of the world's scientists into participating in some giant ponzi scheme.
The oil industry, on the other hand, is proven to have spent millions on disinformation about this subject. It's well documented and the agenda isn't a mystery.
- lol @ "Al Gore couldn't even get himself elected President after he won the election. "version3
- I think Global Warmers have more power. They have the US President, the EU, Nobel Commitee.raf
- also 90+% is a blatant stretchraf
- Oh right, the Nobel Committee, when will they end their reign of terror over the worldukit
What happened to global warming?
This headline may come as a bit of a surprise, so too might that fact that the warmest year recorded globally was not in 2008 or 2007, but in 1998.
But it is true. For the last 11 years we have not observed any increase in global temperatures.
And our climate models did not forecast it, even though man-made carbon dioxide, the gas thought to be responsible for warming our planet, has continued to rise.
"The new carboncredit market is a virtual repeat of the commodities-market casino that's been kind to Goldman, except it has one delicious new wrinkle: If the plan goes forward as expected, the rise in prices will be government-mandated. Goldman won't even have to rig the game. It will be rigged in advance.
Here's how it works: If the bill passes, there will be limits for coal plants, utilities, natural-gas distributors and numerous other industries on the amount of carbon emissions (a.k.a. greenhouse gases) they can produce per year. If the companies go over their allotment, they will be able to buy "allocations" or credits from other companies that have managed to produce fewer emissions. President Obama conservatively estimates that about $646 billion worth of carbon credits will be auctioned in the first seven years; one of his top economic aides speculates that the real number might be twice or even three times that amount.
The feature of this plan that has special appeal to speculators is that the "cap" on carbon will be continually lowered by the government, which means that carbon credits will become more and more scarce with each passing year. Which means that this is a brand new commodities market where the main commodity to be traded is guaranteed to rise in price over time. The volume of this new market will be upwards of a trillion dollars annually; for comparison's sake, the annual combined revenues of all electricity suppliers in the U.S. total $320 billion.
Nobel Prize winner Al Gore, who is intimately involved with the planning of cap-and-trade, started up a company called Generation Investment Management with three former bigwigs from Goldman Sachs Asset Management, David Blood, Mark Ferguson and Peter Harris. Their business? Investing in carbon offsets."
The Great American Bubble Machine, Rolling Stone, Jul 13, 2009
I'm having a tire-burning party this weekend if anyone is interested...
I work with this guy that is a stereotypical republican. He brags about the lack of decent fuel mileage his SUV gets. He actually likes pollution. He brags about not sorting his trash, recycling is stupid and a waste of time, etc.
Pretty much anything you can imagine this guy has said.
- Not saying all republicans are like that but this guy is a fucking dick.DrBombay
- but in fact with all of your statements here you ARE saying that all republicans think like that. therefore,sigg
- you lump everyone who doesn't share your viewpoints into that category. because you are simpleminded.sigg
- Your reading skill are way off. READ THE FIRST LINE. he isn't talking about all republicans.akrokdesign
- I just said I didn't think that, tree stump head. Stop trying to start arguments.DrBombay
- from this experience maybe next time just say he's a dick rather than a republican.airey
- his views are what make him a dick.DrBombay
I'm all for pollution
I'm a cynical fuck now,
I wonder on what fuckn planet you're living. You have really learned the art of trolling a discussion, you rarely bring your own point of view but only repeats what you think (hope) is acceptable. I always say what I think and when I'm wrong I accept it, I don't need to spin a subject by calling crazies or other pejorative names. I know this is the internet, but I will never be able to have a serious discussion with you, because apparently everyone that disagree with you is either a loon or a cynical fuck.
Did you even know that the warmest year was in 98, but we can't have a discussion of facts with you, we need to shout and yell. I don't function like that, I've argued with people whom were by far of higher intelligence and I've gained so much from it, but from you I'll gain only insults, because I point facts and don't follow blindly like you do. Does my individuality makes you angry?
please refrain yourself in the future to attach names to people, its childish and kinda tiring. Look at what ukit posted, while you're insulting people here, the chinese got your economy by the balls (thanks to warren and his globalist clique) and are actually thinking about a green future. All this while you ride in your F-150.
- George, you must admit you really are against a lot and not really for much...DrBombay
- like what? mr bombay, give me examplesGeorgesII
- I don't have any offhand, it is just the impression I get.DrBombay
- you can't really build a house with only air.
thanks for beeing honest thoughGeorgesII
- I will point it out to you in the future when I sense it.DrBombay
- yeah do that.
i'm sick of internetzers implying shit because they're hidden on the other side of the world, i'm honest on my views at leastGeorgesII
- Yes. I drive a F-150, sure.TheBlueOne
- You're the one that stuck me in the "American Box" a year ago, not me.TheBlueOne
- Typical cynical eurotrash.TheBlueOne
It's alright guys, while we argue endlessly over something 99% of scientists say is real, the Chinese are already locking down the market for electric cars.
On the upside, at least your beloved free market capitalism seems to be working - it just won't favor the West.
How are 3rd world country supposed to devellop their technology & infrastructure if they can make use of fossil and coal sources of energy. If they start taxing carbon emissions, those countries will never be able to afford the cost of productions.
I can already here the green zealots say "STOP INCREASING OUR CARBON FOOTPRINT"
you can't really run a mill on solar energy nor wind,
and please I'm all for the gree cause, I was part of greepeace, but one day you just wake up and just realize its all bs.
- Great, so what's your suggestion then?TheBlueOne
- Or are you all ready to just lay down in your grave and die because mankind is doomed.TheBlueOne
- You seem to take that position everywhere.TheBlueOne
- I despise you more than the rightwing trolls because your a cynical fuck.TheBlueOne
- did I touch a cord. I don't despise you TBO, I met people like you everywhere I went, you're do full of yourselfGeorgesII
- anyways you posted four notes but didn't even commented constructively, you will never understand shit in life untill you CALM THE FUCK UPGeorgesII
- CALM THE FUCK DOWNGeorgesII
- I'm full of myself? You're the most arrogant ass I know on this site.TheBlueOne
- I meet people lik eyou everywhere too. Cynical and full of smart comments but no answers.TheBlueOne
- It is like the anarchist dude bliznutty around here. He is against everything and for nothing.DrBombay
^ Mark of the Simpleminded: Reduce a complex subject to an abstract and useless phrase. - TheBlueOne
- I wasn't serious you fucking dickhead.DrBombay
- really?... because you've been towing that line for quite some time now. either you mean it...sigg
- or you're just a cunt looking to draw people out into an argument with you by saying stupid shit.sigg
- raf also said the exact same thing and look at how you respond to him. lofl.sigg
- roflcopters. get off my sack.DrBombay