aquent site redesign-spec work
- Started
- Last post
- 173 Responses
- GammaRay0
High fives all around!
- GammaRay0
To answer your question Matt...
Clients see the value in template monster and design contests because they aren't educated on the value of good design that is unique and specific to their business needs...and all these contests/sites do is continue the ignorance.
You're completely undermining design as a valuable and meaningful profession and, in turn, undermining Aquent. Why would anyone go to Aquent to hire a designer for $60 an hour ($30 for you guys and $30 for the designer) if they can just post a quick 3 bullet brief on some website and pay $200 or $500 and be done with it? Why do they need Aquent at that point? So you're helping to undermine the company you work for...you're helping Aquent lose business...in the long run this little $500 contest has (and will) cost Aquent waaaaay more than sending out an RFP ever would have.
We should be out there educating clients on the value of good design not perpetuating the ignorance. Way to be a solid part of the design community.
- robotron3k0
are you going to drug test the designers that submit, are you through with that????
- monkeyshine0
Well, where have you been? Clients have long seen value in design gotten cheaply (be it a site that sells templates, or ready-made logos) so by your reasoning this is just the way things are. The thing is, these are clients we typically steer clear of because they do not value design or their brand for that matter. Aquent has put themselves in the same boat.
- GammaRay0
Let me re-post what sintaxera wrote:
It seems to me that this would also be bad for Aquent's busines, no? If they're not even willing to hire a designer to do their own website, wouldn't the companies going to Aquent expect to get design work for nothing as well?
- Believe it or not, we actually do have designers on staff who work for us and have even hired well-known firms to do work for us. Just so I'm clear, trying this, in addition to all that stuff, is just over-the-line and demonstrates something deeply flawed about us.Aquentminister
- Aquentminister0
I fully understand the problems inherent in design contests, though I don't think that people realize that contestants can actually interact with the people sponsoring the contests.
My question remains: if clients actually see value in these contests, or crowd-sourcing more broadly, what is the best response from the design community?
Crowdsourcing, portfolio sites, job sites like this one, are part of the web. They are a threat to us as well and a threat that is not going away.
- monkeyshine0
So, if a design centric company like Aquent doesn't understand the value of design, what's the point? How frustrating, really. All the time I spend with clients, understanding their business, their objectives and needs in any type of redesign. All for naught, apparently. :(
- GammaRay0
...and all that design contests do is continue to broadcast the flawed idea that design is only about making something look good and that's it.
heavy sarcasm ---> No other work or thought goes into it...it's easy right?...anyone can do it..."My nephew knows how to use Photoshop, he's a designer, right?"...just learn the Adobe softwares and get some business cards done up and you're now a designer!!!
- GammaRay0
Here's something that a lot of people are forgetting about...
Good design is, in large part, about communicating a message to its intended audience in a clear manner. It is also about providing a solution to a problem. (of course there are many other things I'm glossing over here but bare with me) Design contests don't allow the designer to fully understand the clients needs, problems, concerns and, therefore, doesn't allow them to provide the client with the best solution possible. How, Matt, am I supposed to know why you guys are redesigning your homepage or what your intended goals are with it if I can't have a full kick-off meeting with you?...if all I have to go on is a few words posted on a site?...you're completely glossing over the fact that there is more to design than just "let's make something look pretty"...YAAYYY....
CLEARLY you, Matt, do not understand the value of good design. It is MUCH more than just making something look new or different or fresh...yes good design (something that is purely aesthetically pleasing) can be achieved through a design contest...there are tons of talented designers that could just make something look good...but, are they really providing you with a total solution??? Do they really understand WHY you want to redesign the homepage??? If the current Aquent homepage is working so well why redesign it? Obviously it is not meeting some business level expectations somewhere and someone raised that concern and felt the need to redesign it....is this contest going to provide Aquent with the business solution it needs or just something that looks pretty??? Or is that all that matters to Aquent...all gloss and no substance.
Seriously, Matt, you really have no idea what goes into providing a client with a good design solution do you? You should feel very very sad about yourself...clearly you are a hack who wormed his way up the food chain...cause if you had a clue you wouldn't even begin to think about doing what you're doing.
- um, actually GammaRay, I do know what does into good design. I saw this more as a kind of public brainstorming. Oddly enough, although the contest entirely allows for it, not one person has asked me these business related questions. Likewise, it's curious that people focus on how much we suck for doing this, but know one approaches us as a designer interested in working with us to solve this business problem.Aquentminister
- I for one think this content should stay in topic if it is to be legit. Gamma you don't have your website listed are you trolling?Iggyboo
- If Matt is willing to step up and say he's the one who setup the contest then he has to be ready to personally defend his decision...let's not be babies here.GammaRay
- decision...let's not be babies here.GammaRay
- And, if you're going to do something stupid be prepared to be called stupid.GammaRay
- Wait a second, are you calling me stupid?Aquentminister
- epete220
Hmmm how about a contest for doctors. The first doctor to perform the surgery correct gets their name on a website! woohoo!
- Josev0
Not only that but I assume that they are the "official sponsor" of the AIGA (it's on the AIGA home page) so that they can have access to a higher quality of professional and have more legitimacy in the creative community. Yet they do this which undermines the AIGA's cause.
- sintaxera0
Every designer out there who searches high and low to find clients willing to pay a decent fee for quality design work and expertise gets a gigantic slap in the face every time companies support or sponsor one of these contests.
How are we supposed to justify our fees or be regarded as experts in our field to clients when we are expected to give away our talent and hard work for the off chance of winning some contest? Having a company like Aquent, that supposedly has designers best-interests in mind, participating in a contest like this only makes it harder for us to convince clients that design is worth paying (and paying well) for. I'm sorry, but it's blatantly obvious how destructive this is to our profession.
It seems to me that this would also be bad for Aquent's busines, no? If they're not even willing to hire a designer to do their own website, wouldn't the companies going to Aquent expect to get design work for nothing as well?
- Aquentminister0
OK. This is "that person Matthew." I've set up a poll on my blog to find out how much everyone (or if everyone) in the design community hates design contests. You can voice your protest here:
- How about some damage control. You owe us that much.cannonball
- OSFA0
I sincerely don't see anything wrong with it, in fact, I am in the process of building a site similar to the one in question, but not for designers...I'm doing it for doctors and lawyers. I still can't come up with a name for it, but once I find the 'winner' I'll pay him $500 to sue this fucktard....
- "99 Lawsuits?"ukit
- nah...needs to be more dramatic...OSFA
- 99 dramatic lawsuits?monNom
- that is the second time in a month that I have heard the expression "fucktard" - strangeAquentminister
- Haha @ osfaslappy
- ukit0
But is he savvy bigtrick? Before this happened I had a somewhat positive view of Aquent. Now, I certainly don't. I'm not sure it's such a brilliant move to jump out there are do something that undercuts your brand and public image, among the people that your business depends on.
Not to mention the fact that they may not even get a decent homepage design out of it when all is said and done.
- yeah i guess you're right ;)
bigtrick - there is a good chance that we will not get a usable design from the contest. i think that there are a lot of problems with the approachAquentminister
- this approach, but, like I said, we were experimenting. I, for one, am learning a valuable lesson from this whole conversationAquentminister
- yeah i guess you're right ;)
- bigtrick0
In the end though, Aquentminister is just a savvy businessman - he is just trying to get the most done for as little money as possible, which is what he is paid for. The suckers here are the ones who entered the contest. *They* deserve our attention much more than Aquent. Hopefully all of them are design neophytes who do not yet realize what they are doing to their own industry - cutting their own legs out from underneath them.
:(
- ukit0
I wrote the following:
Matthew -
Design contests on their own are not a threat to the profession, but sites like 99designs certainly are. Sites like these push a model where everything is spec work-based, and in doing so they devalue the price of good design.
I don't think anyone would be offended if you had simply offered a contest on your own site, although it might seem somewhat incongruous coming from a company that supposedly has access to thousands of the best creative professionals. However, the use of 99designs certainly seems to be an endorsement, explicit or implicit, of their business model and practices, and I think that is what people find so offensive. Not only that, but the fact that you put a $500 price tag on designing the homepage of a major company, at a time when many of us are pushing hard to convince clients of the value of our services.
For those of us who work hard as freelancers in this industry, the devaluation of design is obviously a huge threat to our ability to earn a decent living. Aquent's use of a website that is so diametrically opposed to those interests, is I think what has surprised and angered so many people.
You can bet that discussion of this will continue on QBN and other design bulletin boards. I would hope that you would reconsider the value of having this contest given that it may affect the view that many have of Aquent and what they are doing.
- bigtrick0
There are 13 submissions so far to the contest. Let's say that at the end of the contest, there will be 60 submissions. Let's further say that each submitter spent 5 hours working on his/her work. So, in total, 300 hours will have been spent on designing this mockup. Aquent will then pay out $500 in total for this work. The one designer that "wins" gets decent compensation - $100/hr worth. The 59 designers who did not win, wasted 5 hours each of their time.
Essentially, these spec contests are a tremendous waste of resources. *295 hours* of design time will have gone up in smoke. That is equivalent to one designer working 60-hour weeks for almost 5 weeks straight. Every contest ensures that design work goes to waste.
Another way to look at the numbers: if designers had to compete in these contests to earn money, and they had a "win" rate of 1 in every 60 contests, spending 5 hours of work on each contest entry, they would earn $500 for every 300 hours spent working - a pay rate of $1.67 an hour. They would clearly be better off working at McD's where they can earn five times as much.
I hope that helps.
- bigtrick - I think the key point her is: "if designers had to compete in these contests" - do you really think that contests will eclipse traditional paths to design? Are you also opposed to outsourcing design to India or Malaysia?Aquentminister
- bigtrick0
complaint email sent to aquent.
- Aquentminister0
Are design contests an existential threat to the design profession?