Nonbinary

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  • dbloc

    Oregon becomes first state to allow nonbinary on drivers license

    Jamie Shupe: State's first legally nonbinary person.

  • imbecile0

    check your privilege at the door. then head over to the doctor for a quick chromosome check.

    nonbinary, such rubbish.

    i don't care how you self identify. it's SELF! keep it to yourself

    • it's not rubbish entirely ... biologically, there are some interesting things that happen in the gender spectrummonospaced
    • also ... if you really didn't care, wouldn't you keep your rather strong opinion to YOUR self instead of making such absurd statements?monospaced
    • ^ well said...see_thru
    • "I don't care how you self identify. it's self, keep it to yourself." So, Ben Wexler, leave me alone, we don't agree. I'm not wrong as you believe.imbecile
  • chukkaphob0

    • SELF! SELF! SELF!
      That girl looks like a girl, i bet her chromosomes would agree
      imbecile
    • so triggeredmonospaced
    • i have an opinion that differs from yours is all. thing is, it's just as valid and important as Asia Kate Dillon'simbecile
    • ok, so the all caps, ranting repetition and exclamation points are not you getting worked up over this ... got itmonospaced
    • you fail to see the intent of others and ofter portray your on misunderstandings unto them. today is no different snowflake.imbecile
    • btw lol at CAPS equating to worked upimbecile
    • excuse me? I just called you out on being triggered ... big deal, that was no failing of any kind, nor was it me portraying a misunderstanding "unto" theemonospaced
    • all-caps is used to indicate yelling, and so are exclamation points :)monospaced
    • also, this woman isn't saying she isn't female biologically, so your "wager" is really entirely pointless, lolmonospaced
    • snowflakemonospaced
    • look at you go kid, winning an argument only you're having. coolstorybro.jpgimbecile
    • lol, look at you go, little buddy, starting an argument for no reason, that I wasn't even part of, about some nonsense regarding a fictional misunderstandingmonospaced
    • typical mono -- always searching to argue w someone; but never able to sound logical or reasonable or convincing..just typing away his keystroke diarrhea. LMAO!chukkaphob
    • look who's talking, triggered sistersmonospaced
  • shellie15

    I just can't understand why people care either way. Who cares how someone else wants to classify themselves? I certainly don't. WTF does it even matter? It has nothing to do with any of us what someone else wants to be male, female or other. I feel the same way about people who against other people wanting to marry who they want. Who cares? I'm not gay, but it wasn't long ago that black people and white people couldn't marry. My own parents were raised in a time where it was still illegal in some states. Interracial marriage was still illegal in California when my dad was born. Random fucks need to back up out of people's personal lives imo.

    • +1 - I wholeheartedly agree.fadein11
    • < thiskona
    • I couldn't give a shit either. Just don't expect me to jump up and down in joy.
      Let people be; Non/Hyper-binaries and misanthropes alike.
      detritus
    • I can't say I'm 100% everyones lifestyle choices but it's still none of my damn business and there's no reason to be upset. Its a waste of energy.shellie
    • *100% behind.shellie
    • Samesame with polygamous (or even non-amorous!) marriage, I've always thought - why on Earth is it any of my business what people do behind closed doors?detritus
    • Personally im not interested in conservatives forcing Christian values on anyone -- as if they're all sinless angels.shellie
    • drugs should be legal as long as the risks are clear, youre not operating machinery, are pregnant or in the current care of a dependant.shellie
    • Drugs should certainly be decriminalised. I'm not sure how wise it would be to give capitalism free reign over meta/heroin or synth cannabis sales, for example.detritus
    • But sure - sell weed, shrooms, etc. plants and maybe even coke (as much as I hate the stuff). 'All' Drugs though? No.detritus
    • sure maybe not all drugs, but that synthetic weed for instance exists bc accrual weed is still illegal most placesshellie
    • Yup. Don't we know it here in Blighty!
      :(
      detritus
    • kids are dying because they'll find a way to get lifted one weary or another. i agree herion shouldn't be a commercial drug but mass incarseration is a problem.shellie
    • how much does the public at large need to be involved in someone else's SELF identity?imbecile
    • until it makes that person feel important.sted
    • Personally im not interested in gender fluid babies forcing their identity on anyone -- as if they're more important.imbecile
    • You realize that's a libertarian point if view right? Own it.Hayoth
    • @hayoth who me? I registered as a libertarian in high school but it's a wasted vote in practice imo.shellie
    • Ya, your stance "let people be who they want to be" is a libertarian stance. It's not wasted, it's a belief. Rand Paul and US Constitution are almost libertarinHayoth
    • well said, shelliehans_glib
    • classification leads to self segregation, bias and social issues. i say remove them all. #youarenotaspecialli...trooperbill
    • Not much of a personal life if you enter my life and demand particular treatment. Fuck off with your thoughts like the rest of society does.imbecile
  • uan1

    you get registered at birth, and from then on that data gets copied and copied from document to document till you die. I guess it was an important indicator to assign an identity in the early days.

    a solution could be to abolish that sexual distinction from birth- and death-certificates. we don't need that information no more to assign identities.

    • History benefits. You have Birth/ Marriage/Death records going back hundreds of years in Europe. It's useful data. Data can be amended if need be.detritus
    • Name and document numbers should be plenty of info for a cop write me a speeding ticket.shellie
    • @detrius wouldn't it be nice if you could choose to ammend certain data at the age you become a legal adult. I wouldn't mind if it was required at that pointshellie
    • Sure, 'Data can be amended' :)detritus
  • PonyBoy3

    shellie... you make an immensely valid point... I'm 100% w/you but I feel like you're leaving something out (not on purpose or anything... it's just this conversation has changed in the past couple of years).

    The attitude of "Who cares either way" is great. But the problem is there is a rise from the LGBTQXYZ123 crowd DEMANDING you care... to the point certain communities are actually passing 'resolutions' where we're told we must use the appropriate pronoun 'Person A' demands of us (no laws that I can think of as of yet but lawmakers are getting close: https://news.vice.com/story/jord…).

    Jordan Peterson comes to mind...

    • hehe... is he being interviewed by the Six Flags guy?PonyBoy
    • you cited a potential "law" that would grant the LGBT community equal rights, dudemonospaced
    • Not sure how that's problematic, but I also agree that the pronoun thing gets out of hand, and I'd rather not be bothered.monospaced
    • demanding you use a pronoun is not about equal rights ffsPonyBoy
    • People used to and still do call black people lots of things outside of the name we choose for ourselves. it pisses me all the way off.shellie
    • im not sayin you're an asshole we've had dealings offline BUT you are enjoying a certain level of privilege that impedes your ability to understand.shellie
    • lol... i cited a story about Peterson and bill C-16 which is part of the pronoun conversation... what the fuck are you going on about now, trollospaced?PonyBoy
    • shellie... how am I supposed to tell which pronoun to use if there are over 50 of them? If that makes me an asshole and privileged to ask such a Q... so be it.PonyBoy
    • the Vice article you cited wasn't about pronouns, it was for protection against discrimination based on their identitymonospaced
    • For instance just this year a cop repeadedly addressed my boyfriend as Boy, which we all know is passive aggressive racist bullshit.shellie
    • quite literally the first line said it was about equal rights, that's what I'm on about :)monospaced
    • i don't think anyone is expecting you to read minds but if someone says "call me he or they" calling him a she id's pretty fucked.shellie
    • the story is about C-16 and Peterson... what are you going on about, mono? pronouns are part of this conversation as the article showsPonyBoy
    • that pronoun thing, btw, will never be law, for exactly the reasons you don't like it... it's absolutely ridiculous and impossible to implement, it's unrealistimonospaced
    • I'm sorry, I didn't see the part of the article that said it was about pronouns, except to say that this guy also was fighting that fight. Sorry.monospaced
    • I thought it was about this only: "and recognizes violence or advocating genocide against gender expression and gender identity as a hate crime."monospaced
    • *sigh... so WE AGREE. lol Why do you put me through this shit, mono??PonyBoy
    • i don't think it should have to be law but a level of respect would be amazingshellie
    • A certain level of respect is fine as long as the person with the abnormal pronouns makes it easier to use them and knows the onus is on them to do socannonball1978
    • Also... Re: the rhetorical bludgeon of the checking of privilege. You aren't qualified to determine anyone's privilege other than your own.cannonball1978
    • Hey man! Shit, I screwed this up already.Ianbolton
    • big fat LOL at the racism that entered the conversation here...imbecile
  • shellie2

    im a little sensitive today bc a guy i know was beaten to a bloody plup and rushed to the hospital with 6 arrested last night. a bunch of skinheads went to a hipster bar in oklahoma talking all kinds of ignorant shit. my friend approached them trying to calm the hate speech directed at another friend's Asian girlfriend and he paid the price. my experience with people who care so much about fighting against other peoples personal preferences and making superficial snap judgements is more than annoying those -- people can be very dangerous.

    • years ago,six skinheads beat the shit out of me for wearing a Duran Duran t-shirt at a Black Flag concert.

      Skinheads don't discriminate. they hate everyone.
      Gnash
    • !!!detritus
    • To be fair on this, horrific as it is, those guys just want trouble. What ever excuse they just want a fight. Making things almost makes them more prone to hatemugwart
    • oh that group came to drink and fight for sure. ive seen more bar fights in oklahoma over any other state in the US. what's with that?shellie
  • renderedred4

  • sted6

    Generation look at me I'm special.

    • Oh so special, a unique and free snowflake, so gentle... love and light to you.robotron3k
  • pango5

    I can't find my self to give a shit (ok maybe maybe jus a tiny bit. Like a nugget).
    Just let people be.

  • _niko3

    All part of Putin's master plan, effeminize and confuse the enemy and move in for the kill.

    His propaganda machine has America in a tailspin, racial issues and politics are a mess and everyone's becoming a useless snowflake.

    The implosion is inescapable.

    • nobody likes putin, nobody likes erdogan, nobody likes the house of saud, nobody likes kim, but fuck me if they won't be the last ones standing when the dust_niko
    • ...settles_niko
  • lowimpakt0

    The issue gender definition becomes important to people when how they define themselves is in conflict with or not recognised by wider society.

    if your gender was never in question of course you wouldn't care.

    Also, PonyPony mentioned "LGBTQXYZ123" and how they are "DEMANDING" to be understood.

    Non-binary is about gender has nothing to do with sexuality so trans (T) is probably most relevant from this list.

    but the same point applies. What is wrong with people publicly defining their sexuality?

    One obvious reason why it is useful to know is it allows people to find other people like themselves so maybe they can have friendships, relationships, fall in love or have sex.

    • There is nothing wrong with it as long as you agree that there is nothign wrong with people not participating in their definition.cannonball1978
    • that's a very good question I don't have an answer for but why would you actively choose to define someone by a different gender to their own?lowimpakt
    • i suppose the conflict is that gender is cultural as well as biological and the non-binary person is claiming autonomy over their agenda. people get offendedlowimpakt
    • because it's not the social norm they feel responsible for?lowimpakt
    • I would define them to what they are to me subjectively, irregardless of what they define themselves as sunjectively.cannonball1978
    • As in... they can call themselves whatever they want. And I can call them whatever I want to call them. And I dont give a shit about their feelings.cannonball1978
    • Also... gender labels are not cultural.cannonball1978
    • Also... me not giving a shit about "feelings" steming from misalignment between my terms and their terms does not make me bad, phobic or immoral.cannonball1978
    • Punches for: 'irregardless'Continuity
    • didn't say they were demanding to be 'understood'... but demanding specific pronouns that would be difficult for many to remember...PonyBoy
    • Fair enoughcannonball1978
    • ...or many to care to remember for that matter. Their desire to have friends / sex will be fulfilled whether or not I get the pronoun right.PonyBoy
    • cannonball1978 - gender is culturally defined. gender is not the same as a person's sex or sexuality.lowimpakt
    • Sorry no. I agree it's not the same as sex, but no... it is not culturally defined.cannonball1978
    • It's the dictionary definition of gender "Either of the two sexes, especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences"lowimpakt
    • https://en.oxforddic…lowimpakt
    • Ah... maybe semantically it is defined (in terms). But culture does little if anythgin to define the gender you are going to identify with.cannonball1978
    • Let's agree to disagree :) I think culture, society & social norms absolutely define gender(s) & gender roles. These change over time & location so are fluidlowimpakt
  • cannonball19782

    "I think what we have here is a working definition of an asshole -- a person who demands that all social interaction happen on their terms"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/nati…

  • Continuity6

    This whole 'non-binary' thing is something that really pushes my ability to tolerate things. Interracial marriage? Absolutely support it. Gay marriage? Yup. Transgender rights? Naturally.

    But, this non-binary thing? No. Sorry. It's a personal issue; which is to say: personal to the people who are going through it. I shouldn't have to adapt to someone's personal issues, particularly since these non-binary people are in a very, very small minority.

    The other thing I can't help but think is that they're 'non-binary' because they can't make up their fucking minds. Are they cis-whatever? Are they one gender trapped in another gender's body? Well, there's a solution to this: get off the fucking fence, and decide who you are, instead of forcing the rest of society to sit on the fucking fence with you, whilst you hum and haw on the subject.

    Ultimately, I actually don't care if someone sees themselves as 'non-binary'. It's their life, their sense of self, their issue to come to terms with. But I do absolutely object to their issue intruding on the functioning of society and the use of language, like forcing us to address them with non-sensical made-up personal pronouns, and other stupidity. It's not a social issue that defines our time. It's a personal issue to a very, very, very small group of people who can't seem to make up their fucking minds whether they want to go through life with a cock or a cunt.

    Get the fuck on with it, and either go through with gender re-assignment, or stay the gender you were born with. Stop fucking about.

    • Language games are always a power play to control dialogue and coerce.cannonball1978
    • Agreed. However, we're talking about an infinitessimally small group of people who would benefit more from psychotherapy than they would trying ...Continuity
    • ... to get the rest of society to try and comform to their personal issues. It's not society's fault they can't make up their fucking minds, and haven't got ...Continuity
    • ... the courage to solve their problem themselves or with help from a therapist.Continuity
    • So, no one should mess with how you use language, but you can mess with other's identity just to fit in your short-sighted view of the world? Grow up.sr_rosa
    • can you remember the day you made up your mind about what your gender was?lowimpakt
    • Following that logic, as I am not a woman and I haven't had any discrimination for being a woman, we can just disregard any complain about sexism.sr_rosa
    • Or race. Or disability.
      It's so cool to be me...
      sr_rosa
    • Yes, it was the same day i realised the world was filled with precious, self-obsessed, over-privileged morons who's grasp on reality was minimal.Morning_star
  • trooperbill1

    i object to the G in LGBT being Gay, im ginger and think us Gingers should stand up and claim our letter back!

  • pr2-2

    They are god-knows what in reality and they are god-knows what in their fantasy. It's a form of detachment from any reality. Now, i won't be the first one to say that reality matters less and less to the world. Yes, we are still somehow attached to certain laws of physics but that attachment is of lesser and lesser importance for most of us. Not to mention that this detachment from reality was going on for quite some time. Just watch any TV shows for kids - i have a 2 year old and so i do watch lots of kid's TV - and you will find all sorts of "unnaturalness": black girls from the ghetto who want to be astronauts, crippled children who want to be athletes... on and one. What you won't find anymore in those TV shows is boys playing with toy cars and girls playing with dolls. Obviously agenda has infiltrated even the most innocent of media. Yeah, i wish luck to any black girl from the ghetto who dreams about going to the stars and i'll rut for her all the way BUT lets get real here, for 99.99% that will not the reality. They will face a wall of unfulfilled dreams. And so the kids grow up without any real role models but rather abstractions artificially created to fulfill someone's agenda about equality. Those impossible-to-fulfill dreams will push the next generations even further to seek solace in fiction of made-up identities.

    • https://media.giphy.…Bluejam
    • bluejam, slow day?pr2
    • http://media.giphy.c…Bluejam
    • What about a black girl from a poor neighborhood wanting to be an astronaut is "unnatural?"monospaced
    • Also there are tons of disabled athletes, so nothing about that scenario is unnatural either. Finally, the laws of physics are always important ;)monospaced
    • You making up some magical entity that has an agenda as a justification for your agenda to validate your made-up prejudices. So sad. Leave those kids alone!sr_rosa
    • Seems unnatural to think that just because they aren't part of the .01% that has it all handed to them that they should stop dreaming and give up entirely.monospaced
    • Mono, for a guy who thinks like the 99.99%, to suddenly stand up for the minority seems a bit dishonest, doesn't it?pr2
    • I have no idea what you're talking about.monospaced
    • Argumentum ad populum is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."sr_rosa
    • Also, 99.99%, in your dreams.sr_rosa
    • "Argumentum ad populum" is not an argument i'm making here. Re-read what i wrote.pr2
    • you're saying that the chances of an underpriveleged minority having that kind of success is so low, they shouldn't bother pursuing a dream like thatmonospaced
    • that they should give up and not bother creating better role models since it's just generally understood they have low chances ... what did I miss?monospaced
    • The real issue is that this is a generalized view, so it's actually a good thing to break those stereotypes you so ineloquently described that hold people back.monospaced
    • If I read correctly, in your view, children shouldn't be taught that black girls can be astronauts, right? It should be white boys only, right?monospaced
    • No! Didn't 2 sentence after i added that i rut for all underprivileged black girls who have this dream????pr2
    • The beef is not to show that "some" black girls have dreams but rather by creating such unrealistic dream you in turn destroy more realistic dreams of...pr2
    • ...the other 99%.pr2
    • You know what i haven't seen lately much - if of little boys simply playing with toy trucks while little girls simply playing with dolls. Which is fucking...pr2
    • ...strange because as a parent of a cute 2 year old i see him doing nothing but play with toy trucks.pr2
    • And so instead of giving dreams to the vast majority of boys and girls we let some liberal minds propagandize for the sake of the .0001% who will full...pr2
    • ...the dream of becoming an astronaut. And that majorly fucks up the vast majority.pr2
    • That's because you bought him the toy trucks - buy him a Barbie and I am sure he will grow to love her too :)fadein11
    • Fadein, every single parent i know tried this experiment - and every single one found out that you can't win with biology.pr2
    • I fail to see the paper of biology on dreaming of being an astronaut or a truck driver.sr_rosa
    • With paper I meant role.sr_rosa
    • You said you would root, but you finished saying that they shouldn't bother. Don't even attempt to backtrack. Pathetic.monospaced
    • You came through loud and freakin clear with your lame opinion, which is totally tucked to the people that kind of thinking affects.monospaced
    • The people this mentality affects the most is my kid who doesn't get to see positive role models.pr2
    • Why? Aren't you as a parent a positive role model for your child?sr_rosa
    • lol, fucking hell, really? so a black girl can't be a positive role model, and your kid can what ... only look up to white men?monospaced
    • "every single parent i know tried this experiment" - what a strange bunch of triggered friends you have :)fadein11
    • genetic digger trucks - wow.fadein11
  • Gnash-1

    • I fully get encouraging ones kids but isn't this bordering on sexplotation?mugwart
    • But drag isn't nonbinary, it's an act. "Lactatia" is a boy.i_monk
    • ^ ya, i hesitated posting this because of that. but her opening lines in the vid were totally relevantGnash
    • er, his opening lines...Gnash
    • If your premise is that "it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks" you can't just follow that with "but you have to use the pronoun I choose or else"...zarkonite
    • The unspoken coda of "it doesn't matter what anyone thinks" is "as long as they agree".i_monk
  • severian2

    Me, me me me me me me me. We dont fucking care. Its gone to far.

    • this is well within the cringe stratosphereGnash
    • what even the fuckscarabin
    • this is so absurd. thanks!renderedred
    • this is so bad it needs upvotingPonyBoy
    • bill nye's whole new show is utter shit. this is case in point.sarahfailin
    • ^ ya, it's terrible. The old one wasn't that good either, actually.Gnash
    • too far? like in convenient for you kind of too far?pango
  • doesnotexist2

    if it's none of my business, why share? i don't care what you are, but probably hate you anyways.

  • zarkonite0

    There is some science behind genderqueer, if you're interested I'd recommend getting the January issue of natgeo magazine: http://www.nationalgeographic.co…

    I know there's a lot of bullshit around the phenomenon, but at its root there are scientific and genetics facts that are undeniably happening.

    As for myself, I'm not changing my pronoun game as Chapelle put it so succinctly. I'm simply not interested in sharing what I consider private information with the world, and that goes both ways. You define yourself how you want, and then you deal with the fact your freedom ends where mine begins.

  • hans_glib4

    so i think the general reaction can be summed up as