Q: Non-paying web clients

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  • pang

    Howdy Peeps,

    You guys are going to love this one. (I'm sure this topic has popped-up before).

    I have a web client who's had a site since 2006 and who has had the odd MINOR update. Their site is pretty static, rankings are averaging Google page4. I have suggested many options over the years, e.g. social, marketing, responsive redesign, etc to boost rankings, improve in/out bound links, etc.

    After speaking with them I get the response, 'Oh, we don't understand all that technical stuff', even though I explain in basic terms/plain English. Most times I don't even get replies to emails.

    And today we got the, 'We're not sure what we are paying for' email reply which means they don't intend paying their annual bill. They've not requested or asked anything else and left things quite open.

    So what would you guys do? How do you normally handle this one? Any stories to share?

    I'm 'kinda thinking; first of all telling them how it is, i.e. 2006 site which is never touched, no news, no input, no new content and they make no effort; then secondly giving them a deadline to go speak to other companies for quotes advice as they don't believe why their site is on page 4; and finally give them a "soon-ish" deadline to come back and decide what they're doing and then I can pull the site down and charging a fee to release the domain name.

    Ok... on your marks.... witty comments on standby...
    ... and GO!

  • uan0

    first you need to answer this: what are they paying for.

    ...if they got an unupdated site for years, what did that site bring them...most possibly nothing.

    and they are right about that 'technical stuff'...you have to sell them something that is actually of some worth for them...i.e. new clients.

  • fadein110

    what are they paying for? hosting? or a retainer for updating the site?
    confused.

  • mekk0

    1st: Make little Concept of new website, something they can touch and see, just one dumb mockup with some css/js animations, most clients fall for this

    Or 2nd: Show them a website of another client of you that you redesigned and hand out numers of their results, eg google rankings, clicks, running costs

    Or the bad number: Show them their biggest competitor's website and make them jealous. Tell them you can create them a better one.

    Give rebates when they were paying you since 2006 and you did very little work on it. Be the friendly, understanding businessman, not the greedy designer dude you are!

  • Continuity0

    I'm not quite sure where the 'non paying' part comes into this whole thing.

    I've read the story twice, and it sounds to me like you're trying to drum up new business out of this client, and they're not buying ... which is a whole different animal from blanket 'non-paying' accusations.

  • pang0

    Sorry, the bill is for their hosting.

  • microkorg0

    If they are not into all that technical stuff then take their site down and let them try to find some business via adverts in the Yellow Pages.

    Seriously though you need to explain to them the importance of a good web presence in this day and age. Instead of bamboozling them with any form of tech-talk, why not just give them examples of other clients you've either helped get up Google Rankings, or improved their sales figures via web or online shop, increased traffic to site leading to enquiries etc - and along with this give them the figures that those clients have roughly paid to achieve this with you.

    Sounds like they just need a reality check!

    Going back to the Yellow Pages thing (and their shite website too), I talked to a client a short while back that was happy to be spending HUNDREDS a month with that heap of crap that no one uses and getting no feedback/ visible return. I suggested that they spend that money on Google Ads and SEO improvements instead as they would get a much better return on investment.

    • I know exactly what you mean on Yellow Pages stuff. Had the exact same thing happen.pang
    • On a separate note; I heard YellowPages recently went into admin? Is that correct?pang
  • microkorg0

    If they are not into all that technical stuff then take their site down and let them try to find some business via adverts in the Yellow Pages.

    Seriously though you need to explain to them the importance of a good web presence in this day and age. Instead of bamboozling them with any form of tech-talk, why not just give them examples of other clients you've either helped get up Google Rankings, or improved their sales figures via web or online shop, increased traffic to site leading to enquiries etc - and along with this give them the figures that those clients have roughly paid to achieve this with you.

    Sounds like they just need a reality check!

    Going back to the Yellow Pages thing (and their shite website too), I talked to a client a short while back that was happy to be spending HUNDREDS a month with that heap of crap that no one uses and getting no feedback/ visible return. I suggested that they spend that money on Google Ads and SEO improvements instead as they would get a much better return on investment.

  • Continuity0

    OK, so the client doesn't want to pay for hosting? Are you the middle man in all this? Are you making any profit on it?

    I don't know ... this whole story sounds like a non-starter to me.

    • My first instinct would be to transfer all domain stuff to them, and eject the client, to focus on other ones who do like paying for services.Continuity
    • ... services.Continuity
    • Hosting via our reseller account. Profit is minimal really.pang
  • pang0

    Essentially they want to boost rankings to get more enquiries (sales) in via the site. But I can't just work and implement stuff for free. And they expect their site will preform well each year and receive regular enquiries. I've suggested ways I can improve the rankings but the clients don't want to do or pay for anything.

    It's also worth noting that their sector is very competitive. Their site did perform well back around 2006 but not in today's market, hence the page4 average now.

  • Continuity0

    'I've suggested ways I can improve the rankings but the clients don't want to do or pay for anything.'

    Then eject them. Simple as that.

    You go to a shop, ask for stuff then tell the sales clerk you won't pay for it, they'll ask you to leave, and get money from people who actually _do_ want to pay for the stuff.

    Start offering your services to clients who actually do want you to take their money.

  • Continuity0

    'It's also worth noting that their sector is very competitive. Their site did perform well back around 2006 but not in today's market, hence the page4 average now.'

    ^^ That's also very telling. It sounds to me they've got problems that go deeper than a simple website. It sounds to me like whoever is running the business is losing the plot, from the inside out. The fact they don't want to buy into your counsel also speaks volumes to that, so I think it's time you parted ways with this client. I think they're checking out.

    • < This was my gut feeling too. I think you're right, Continuity.pang
  • pang0

    Prime example: I ask for new photos and testimonials so that I can add to the site, keep it updated, etc. And the response I get is: "Yes, we have some on our camera. I'll email them over to you", and then I never hear anything. I email several times to request these mysterious photos but to no avail. I don't even get a reply.

  • Continuity0

    In the end, part of running a successful business — big or small, freelance or massive agency network — is to do the occasional review of the client roster and P&L sheet to see which clients are active, which are dormant, which of those dormant ones can be re-activated, and which can't be grown. The ones that can't be grown need to be taken off the roster to make room for either servicing your active ones, or finding new ones.

  • ORAZAL0

    In the client's defense if your emails to them are as clear as your post it's normal that they don't want to pay.
    If you think you were clear in the services you are proposing (and the benefits) yet they don't want to take them then you should just move on.

    • Apologies, my post was not clear enough. Was trying to be concise and not too much blurb.pang
    • I've explained clearly with examples, competitor examples, via email + verbally, benefits and proposals.pang
    • Too bad for them then.ORAZAL
  • pang0

    So if the consensus is to move on and/or run away - what's the next course of action? Issue a "Sorry we're parting company" letter? Issue a deadline and pull the site? Allow them some thinking time? Charge or hold the domain?

    • do you host their email? makes it a lot trickier if you do.kingsteven
    • Nope, all forwarded to their personal a/cpang
  • kingsteven0

    btw. i wouldn't suggest running away. i've got a few of these sorts of clients and they usually come through with some work eventually. i just leave the site as is and charge bi-annually for the domain. i try to cover my hosting fees with big traffic sites like festivals etc.

    • This is the trouble, they've been "as is" and now complaining they're not getting high rankings + enquiriespang
    • i had a client who paid 2k for a site, then 17k to an indian company for 'SEO'. Sell em' some fairy dust.kingsteven
  • BaskerviIle0

    I never understood why companies would pay an annual fee for a website. They should pay by update. ie if they want an update they pay purely for that.
    Hosting is obviously the only real running cost.

    If I were you, I'd offer to build them a site with a CMS, wordpress or something easy. Then they can update the site themselves.
    They can pay you for technical help when needed and SEO advice.

    Easy.

    I don't believe a client should pay an flat annual fee for a site that isn't being updated