UK outside the EU
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- autoflavour0
I have often thought it would be cool to let world political leaders do like a wife swap show for a month..
Cameron swaps with Obama, Merkel with Kim Jong Il..
It would be hilarious to watch on tv
- detritus0
...besides which, we're joining our French chums for war games in Mali. Tying together militaries in readiness of a Pan-European Military structure is hardly a harbinger of political division.
- Fax_Benson0
Experts can't predict the impacts that leaving the union might have. The general public will be almost entirely clueless. Cameron knows that most people don't want, or wouldn't understand the implications of, a referendum. The chances of the public being informed via a sensible, impartial debate between now and then are zero.
He's using this to placate his party and as a bargaining tool to negotiate new terms with Europe. They, like most, think he's a complete twat.
Europe is a financial mess, but that has nothing to do with the fact that Europeans are free to travel to the UK and work,
- chrisRG0
^yep, and I guess that's a question he needs to answer, what will happen to Brits working in EU and to EU woking in UK?
- qTime0
Some people are mixing up Europe with immigration.
Our government actually wants mass immigration.- some people are mixing up your with you'reFax_Benson
- some people are being pedantic ;)qTime
- shaft0
Would that make any practical difference? Not even for travel as UK and Ireland are not in Schengen anyway (funny enough, some non-EU countries are in).
There are a few countries outside of the EU in Europe, some doing quite well, I don't see why the UK (or any EU country) couldn't.
Unbeknownst to most Europeans, voting system in the EU changes in 2014 to one brought upon by Lisbon Treaty. Technically, EU will be ruled by 4-5 large countries that represent 50% of the EU population. There will be no room for opposition, it will simply be ignored. Those EU vetoes you hear about? In most areas they are scrapped too.
If UK isn't one of these countries that will keep full control (and it clearly will be a Franco-German coalition), it will have no say in the EU at all.
- Fax_Benson0
British public's level of concern over the EU relationship, as of 2 weeks ago.
- Fax_Benson0
- SNOW should be top%.
It's all that's been on the f*cking news!!!!!!!23kon
- SNOW should be top%.
- pang0
The BBC reported there would be alot of conditional "IFS" before there's even a public vote. So the chances of anything coming out of this, let alone in 2015 or whenever... it's more of the usual "same old, same old", i.e. politician says one thing and then later does the opposite.
- chrisRG0
He won't stop!
PM David Cameron: "We will give the British people a referendum with a very simple in or out choice"In a long-awaited speech, Mr Cameron pledged to hold a referendum during the early part of the next parliament - by the end of 2017 at the latest - if the Conservatives win the next general election.
He said it would be a decision on the UK's "destiny" and, if he secured a new relationship he was happy with, he would campaign "heart and soul" to stay within the EU.
- detritus0
it's typical rightwing-tory brinkmanship - lead everyone to the edge of the cliff to let them know a) just how far they'll go to fuck things up and b) how high the cliff is so everyone holds tight to their rope.
I wouldn't worry about it too much, the American administration's more than loudly voiced their discontent at the situation, and if there's one thing Britain's still really good at, it's doing what America tells it to.
EU could as easily play the game and hardline Cameron's pick and choose philosophy - I'm sure he'd (and the moneymen he kowtows to) crane his neck in in no time if the EU threatened to fuck our right to free trade on the continent.
- qTime0
Not sure the public is best placed to make a decision on this.
For me the quality of life appears better in France and Germany than the UK plus people like Cameron hate things like capping the hours worked by people that the EU want. So I'm all up for closer relations with Europe. I don't really care where we are ruled from.
Its not like we really have democracy in the UK with only 2.5 parties to choose from.- God no! The public should never be consulted on things like this. The public = morons. I know, because I'm public.detritus
- Sadly most of the public believe what they are told in the Sun.qTime
- So true - a plebiscite is the worse possible outcome for this situation, we live with a bunch of zenophobic fucktardsrupedixon
- Look at all those Britons moving to Paris. Not. It's the French who flock to London for jobs.shaft
- My French client calculated, his state medical service costs more in tax than it would have in insurance in the US.shaft
- -cool story, shaftqTime
- trooperbill0
i think the two tier idea is best. basically a cake and eat it scenario
i dont want to pay in euros in the UK, i for one am fiercely proud of our british heritage and want to maintain the status-quo.
it doesnt make sense for us to have laws and judicial rulings just for them to be overturned by an european judicial system.
we should also define our own human rights policies
from a marketing perspective its a master stroke.
1. hes saying to europe if you dont agree to these rules then you run the risk of losing the uk
2. hes gained popularity from the right wing in the next election guaranteeing their success
3. get out of jail free card is 'the public voted' so whatever happens politically he can wash his hands of it.
4. no competing political parties can protest or campaign against a public vote
...genuis.
the common market works!
it seems at the moment that Europe as a bundled entity doesnt.- "fiercely proud"? How so?detritus
- Have you stabbed a Frenchman in the eye today with some Sheffield Stainless? Forced a German to eat pound coins?detritus
- coins?detritus
- Why does it matter where our laws are made? I rather Europe make them than the ConLibsqTime
- @detritus meh everyone below the m62 is foreign loltrooperbill
- Fax_Benson0
My sarcasm radar is on the blink - is that a genuine post trooperbill? Just curious.
- Continuity0
This is David Cameron pandering to the Daily Mail readership, but as Detritus mentioned, the US have made their position on the subject clear.
The problem with Cameron is he's a complete imbecile, and doesn't really know when he's gone too far.
I reckon he'll take it to the end. And, what's more, the EU will let him, to teach him a lesson.
- qTime0
Its funny to see papers like the Torygraph back peddle now and print stories about how we should stat in Europe.
- kingkong0
personally im all for it
immigration has been a disaster in terms of pr and management
Europe is basically flawed/fucked.
Northern Europe is fundamentally different to southern Europe, pretending were all the same got us in this mess.
As someone who runs a business with european clients they all see it as noise and if anything they are al running to non euro countries like the Swiss or the UK.
Europe's Socialist ideas are dangerous, and in an ever globalized world utterly unrealistic financially.
the madness is that a 'financial club' is way more powerful than a political club.
frankly the EU is protectionism in action, and that as a financial model has ever worked.
The idea that a non elected body can reign over an elected body is bizzare.
Im all for Europe but anyone who things that its current incarnation is correct is mad. Financial its broken, philisophically its broken, it's ideals born out of world war were all well and good, but the world is a different place than 60 years ago. Co-interdependance as a means for peace just seems quaint.
I no Cameron fan but sleep walking to a super state of europe is political arrogance and the 'social experiment' that is the EIU will be seen in history as destructive not constructive in my opinion.
The fact that the UK demographic mix has massively shifted in 10 years make me angry. No one asked, no one listened, and now if anything they/we have created zenophopia where there never was any, totally counter to the original aim.
So no im not a fan of him, but being european is a cultural and economic club not a political and financial one.
carry on I say.
Oh and the europeans are foreign
- you sure there wasn't any xenophobia 10 years ago?Fax_Benson
- Northern England is different from the south.qTime
- Our government wants mass immigration. If your white and middle class your fucked.qTime
- yep,history's great oppressed, the white middle class.Fax_Benson
