spec vs. samples?
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- ETM0
^
However seeing your work process and how efficient you are can be best examined in the review/probationary period. Once sample test is not a true measure. You are not fully embedded in the work environment or process, or with your co-workers/team. Every project is different. Sometimes you struggle, sometimes it's lightning in a bottle. Only time within the actual environment can tell you anything about a person.- +1Glitterati_Duane
- The high-pressure test doesn't so much show your skill but it shows how well you know something. I imagine the tests I've had are only really for entry-level positions, where portfolios can be very deceptive.orrinward2
- ...the tests I've had are only really for entry-level positions, where portfolios can be very deceptive.orrinward2
- Regardless, a test, and starting a marketing campaign for them are two VERY different things.ETM
- ETM0
And as a slight aside, but related. Discussing fair tests. For design and production people, one test that never fails to weed out the 'hacks' is asking someone to isolate a subject from a background in PS. Especially one with fine details like hair, grass etc. If they go to the lasso and just start clicking, you can move on knowing you dodged that bullet. And it only takes a few minutes. I don't always need them to finish, just want to know where they'd start.
- And I mean clicking to trim and be done, not clicking to isolate the subject better.ETM
- ukit20
"I would be cautious of any company that starts a relationship by assuming people should/would work for free."
Unfortunately this is becoming standard practice at many places these days. Many well known Silicon Valley companies will ask for a test or spec work.
- The only people that can stop it are the potential employees. Accepting it is BS.ETM
- Amicus0
I've only ever done this for recruiting agencies when it's just a standard test of program capabilities. I would refuse to do it for a potential employer unless they were happy to pay for my time.
- MrAbominable0
^ukit2, do you mean something like a rational sample as described by others earlier? or something to the extent of what my client assigned me?
- webazoot0
If you have a folio I think that should stand for your work and talent. Getting everyone they interview to mock up samples seems like a way of getting free ideas to me.
- pr20
You guys are over-thinking it. Stay positive as the start-up guy might not know how shit works (or might be delusional thinking one can get so much shit for free). Simply state that the above will take (1-5 days) depending on the scope and is he willing to pay for the time - or even better you coming into the office to do it on site (again PAID). That way they see you you work, you get paid. Simple.
- MrAbominable0
^it does seem to defeat the whole "portfolio" part of the interview.
- MrAbominable0
Dude wrote me back that he understood the time constraints and would factor that into the work. Thereby dismissing about half my letter to him about how this was a massive amount of work and that he should consider hiring me freelance for it or make it the basis of a performance review. He further went on to reiterate that if i wasn't interested in fulfilling the request that he couldn't possibly consider me for the position.
I think my response (rather than telling him to go fuck himself) will be that "i don't think he'll be very satisfied with the caliber of work or person that he extracts from this process and if his position evolves that he should feel free to get back in touch with me.
Or i could just write him what i really think. :)
- NEVER burn bridges.pr2
- Just say, thanks but no thanks and move on.qTime
- I'd say that your portfolio and references speak to your skills, and if they reconsider to give you a call.ETM
- etm ftw.MrAbominable
- doesnotexist0
it may mean your portfolio isn't strong enough
but usually you shouldn't be working unless you're getting paid
- pr20
Just wanted to ad that i noticed that lots of people are thought in business schools: "Never pay for anything you don't have to pay for." Unfortunately most people take this advice and translate to: "Never pay for anything."
- qTime0
Why are jobs just becoming one big competition?
Do companies want to hire the most desperate person who will slave away for them hours on end?
- MrAbominable0
cheers to that.
i should add on a side note that A: i think i was the first interview, and B: it's a start-up and dude is a micromanaging MBA. So he offered up front that he knew little about design but knew what he liked. Except the not knowing whether or not he wanted to hire me based on my existing portfolio :)
- whhipp0
Pay to play. Never do spec no matter the circumstances. Keep the industry respectable and profitable. We have a tallent, skill and education that others do not possess, just like every other professional - dont allow the degradation.
- vaxorcist0
it might mean they are wondering:
1. how fast you work
2. how much of the stuff in your folio was yours and how much was collaborative with somebody elsemaybe you can answer these questions without doing a spec job?
- crillix0
If they don't hire you, you are out time/effort and they got something they should of paid for... even if its just an idea or concept. The whole purpose of you applying for the job there is because you want them to pay you to do that.
- vaxorcist0
Maybe make it clear to them that you're willing to work on a trial bases... like a week-to-week basis at first, they can always fire you if you don't get along or expectations are different on your side vs their side,etc....
My guess is they may have no idea what to expect, does a logo take 15 minutes or 3 days, nothing to say of 3 months and the endless meetings and revisions we may have experienced....
In a startup, the advantage is the lack of endless levels of beaurcracy, but the disadvantage is the lack of understanding of what goes into things.. they may expect things to simply sprout from your head without them having to give you anything like, say business objectives, target market research,etc....
- Peter0
I've done it - once.
I suppose out of desperation at the time. And transfer possibilities.
Got hired, and was happy to hear straight from the CEO that what I did, my designs, was exactly what they were looking for.
Fastforward half a year: company turns out to be awful, 1/2 miserable and 1/3rd of the employees ready to jump ship in an instant.
I know better than to judge a company from one experience,
but I would be cautious of any company that starts a relationship by assuming people should/would work for free.
- MrAbominable0
here are the parameters i just got via email...
[nice warm up note that leads into:]
· Two page side-by-side print ad:
o One page graphic ad showing a partnership/collaboration between [them] and [us]. Should have the logos, some photography, maybe a new catchy slogan. Attached are some lockup files I found.
o Second page (symmetrical) is 2 typed paragraphs on a separate page describing how the [our] technology and process compliments [their] product and company and is going to be fully integrated into their operations. Should be inspiring, consumer friendly. Type treatment and color should be carefully chosen.
· Hangtag – an digital mockup model of a hangtag that you would envision on [our product]. It should indicate [our product] in an environmentally friendly way (you can add some metrics about the specific savings mentioned on the website and/or other unique qualities) – should be very consumer friendly and appealing (not just the logo plastered onto a tag). You can mail this to me and email a PDF of the design.
· Marketing campaign – no more than 3 paragraphs outlining a new creative way to campaign our [product] and send it viral all over the world. Should identify the target market, the method of communication, possible cost, and some specifics about the campaign....
biting my tongue. that's like... crazy excessive, right?
- if you were to charge a client for that amount of work what numbers pop in your head?e-pill
- because as of now, you are only getting zippidy zip zip!!e-pill
- in a 3 day turn around? it would be astronomical.MrAbominable
- submit a contract that you will do the work "For Hire" and that you will be paid for it.e-pill
- The time that could go into thought and planning alone, outside "pen to paper".ETM
- ?ETM? ?...
e-pill, i love the idea of sending him an invoice. lol.MrAbominable - This is fucking crazy.Josev
- Run from this prospective jobJosev
- nutty.whhipp
- vaxorcist0
RUN!
- i'm entering the pride=eviction realm. but yeah. thanks for the fb.MrAbominable