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Overprint Indesign 2323 Responses

Last post: 1 year, 2 months ago | Thread started: Feb 28, 12, 10:51 a.m.

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  • stewart

    In Indesign, why would i still use the 'overprint fill' attributes (window>output>attributes) when i can use the multiply-effect on a stroke or fill of an object?
    When I just use the multiply-effect I don't have to use the 'overprint preview' to check the overprint colors.
    Is there somewhere a benefit of using 'overprint fill'? Or are these remains of an other desktop-publishing-era.

    Feb 28, 12, 10:51 a.m. – Permalink
  • i_monk

    If you're using spot colours, your multiply effect will not print properly, first of all.

    And doesn't overprint fill mean it's printed on a second pass in the printer?

    • No, "overprint fill" doesn't mean "printed on a second pass."– hellobotto
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    Dog-earFeb 28, 12, 10:59 a.m. – Permalink
  • i_monk

    Just because it looks right on the screen doesn't mean it will print that way. Paper ≠ the web.

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    Dog-earFeb 28, 12, 11 a.m. – Permalink
  • alicetheblue

    Isn't Black always set to overprint?

    • Are all strokes black?– i_monk1/5
      Always?– i_monk2/5
      In everything?– i_monk3/5
      Process black is sometimes set to overprint by default because no printer...– hellobotto4/5
      ...wants to try to trap a 1pt thick black line.– hellobotto5/5
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    Dog-earFeb 28, 12, 11:01 a.m. – Permalink
  • alicetheblue

    Here is an example of Overprint in InDesign
    and how to export InDesign file to a PDF using overprint option:
    http://veerle.duoh.com/design/ar…

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    Dog-earFeb 28, 12, 11:10 a.m. – Permalink
  • hellobotto

    "Multiply" is a screen effect. "Overprint" is a printing reference. If you're staying in the realm of screen-based artwork, then Multiply and its faux overprint effect is sufficient. If you're looking to get something printed, and your print bureau doesn't care to understand what effect you're trying to achieve, then using Multiply in place of Overprint could leave you sorely disappointed with the finished product.

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    Dog-earFeb 28, 12, 11:10 a.m. – Permalink
  • stewart

    Those are the answers i'm looking for.

    Another example: when I have an object with a stroke, and I set attributes to 'overprint stroke', it only overprints the outside half of the stroke, not the whole stroke.
    The whole stroke shows in overprint when I use effects > multiply > stroke only. Strange?

    • It's because the stroke my be "centered" over the edge of the fill.– hellobotto1/4
      Change the stroke to "inside" and see if you get the same effect.– hellobotto2/4
      nope, centre, inside, outside: all the same!– stewart3/4
      Interesting. Just saw this in Illustrator, too.– hellobotto4/4
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    Dog-earFeb 28, 12, 11:12 a.m. – Permalink
  • hellobotto

    As a follow-up to the Stroke observation above, and a cautionary note about overprints...

    If a 4/C object (A) is set to overprint another 4/C object (B), the CMYK values in Object A can override the CMYK values in Object B. For example, if Object B has a magenta value of 50%, and Object A has magenta set at 40%, the overlap won't look like 90% magenta (like Multiply would lead you to believe); the net overprint result is 40% magenta when printed.

    This is why it's imperative to know how each behave and when it makes sense to use them. Sadly I learned this lesson...on press.

    • exactly, because printing more magenta on top of magenta results only in magenta– monospaced
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    Dog-earFeb 28, 12, 11:53 a.m. – Permalink
  • stewart

    @hellobotto above:
    I noticed that too using %'s of swatches. The outcome can be totally illogical and unpredictable.
    With effect > multiply the outcome is totally clear. I still wonder why this should be for screen only and useless for print.

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    Dog-earFeb 28, 12, 12:15 p.m. – Permalink
  • Amicus

    Another problem with multiply is that you can exceed your ink limits without realising it causing muddy shadows or lines to appear a little thicker than you wanted.

    • you can measure ink totals, use 300% ink profiles on export, or apply undercolor removal?– stewart1/2
      sure, but it's easier to realise it as you are going.– Amicus2/2
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    Dog-earFeb 28, 12, 1 p.m. – Permalink
  • monospaced

    @stewart

    Over printing inks is not equivalent to multiply, so it's really pointless to talk about them like they achieve the same effect, or to say that one is illogical and unpredictable. Some inks are naturally more opaque than others, so results in real overprinting do vary in many ways, including the stock you're printing on. hellobotto got it right up there.

    • I know, I know, but somethimes the outcome is really illogical. Problem is that I can't explain the examples that good in English.– stewart
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    Dog-earFeb 28, 12, 1:59 p.m. – Permalink
  • hektor911

    Wow this thread is really useful!

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    Dog-earFeb 28, 12, 2:47 p.m. – Permalink
  • jonny_quest_lives

    +1 this thread...
    brought a tear to my eye
    it's good to know there are still print people hanging about on qbn.

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    Dog-earFeb 28, 12, 2:53 p.m. – Permalink
  • stewart

    here's another one. can anyone explain the behavior of a) b) and c), and why it doesn't look like the bottom two examples?

    http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8052/screenshot20120229at143.png

    • note: the stroke is on the outside of those objects, not the centre.– stewart1/2
      looks like a bug– Yolo2/2
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    Dog-earFeb 29, 12, 4:47 a.m. – Permalink
  • monospaced

    looks like trapping problems

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    Dog-earFeb 29, 12, 5:22 a.m. – Permalink
  • hellobotto

    My hypothesis comes back to my original point that Overprinting is a printing technique and Multiply is a screen effect.

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    Dog-earFeb 29, 12, 5:44 a.m. – Permalink
  • hellobotto

    If you are wanting to create the effect you're demonstrating in your Multiply example, but with overprinting, then you have to accept this print production technique (like playing with dot gain) might not offer you a shortcut. You have to deliberately create artwork to generate your end result.

    This goes for anything related to creative problem solving. In order to execute any concept, grand or small, you have to work within the limitations of the processes propelling the activity. Assuming Multiply will translate on press is foolish, consulting with a pressmen and knowing Multiply will translate on their presses is being a smart designer.

    One last thought. Take a step back, and replace Multiply with Difference. Both of these effects live in the same family, they are blending effects. Should we expect to be able to replicate "Difference" with etched plates on a 4/C press?

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    Dog-earFeb 29, 12, 5:46 a.m. – Permalink
  • BaskerviIle

    Firstly, as has been said, overprinting is not an effect, it is simply letting the transparency of the ink show through when overlaid, combining to create colours on the printed page, rather than before printing inside the computer.
    An overlay will tell the computer what colour to make, then this will be printed as a simulation of that colour, but the printer won't print solid colours on top of each other to make it.

    In your diagram above, I think the reason you have a double stroke around the right hand cirlce is an issue of trapping. Trapping is the 'safe zone' that printers build in when two colours are going to sit side by side. Since it is almost impossible to align two blocks of colour side by side (you either get an overlap or a white gap) printers take the attitude that deliberate, controllable overlap is better than a white gap. The navy blue inner circle shows the overlap or trapping between the cyan and magenta plates.

    • trapping normally is 0.088 mm, not 6 points as the line in the above example?– stewart1/2
      the printer WILL print solid colors over each other in overprinting. This explanation is confusing even ME because it might be wrong– monospaced2/2
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    Dog-earFeb 29, 12, 5:55 a.m. – Permalink
  • stewart

    the above multiplied objects give a perfect color seperation in the PDF output preview after exporting to a fullcolor PDF from InDesign.

    anyone with an example where this multiply effect really goes wrong when bringing the document to print? i'm still trying to sort out why I shouldn't use multiply.

    • Talk to your printer and/or get a proof. If Multiply works for you, then that's great and now you know for sure– hellobotto
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    Dog-earFeb 29, 12, 6:05 a.m. – Permalink
  • monospaced

    Use multiply if you're not overprinting! This is getting ridiculous.

    Overprinting is LITERALLY printing one color over another. For example, printing a spot light blue over black, or vice versa. Sometimes that color does well on top of black, which is NOTHING like multiply.

    Multiply is a filter popularized in old-school photoshops, and then in Photoshop. It just adds the color values together on screen and creates a new color. It's something you use to get that desired effect, but it should never be confused with or compared to overprinting.

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    Dog-earFeb 29, 12, 6:46 a.m. – Permalink
  • climbatree

    wow just wow, i'm a junior and the lack of understanding of this is amazing, i was explaining over print stoke for a die lie the other day to another junior and their all like, i don't really need to do that its just to make the file perfect and tidy arrgggg. who teaching these people?

    • sorry rant over, says the know it all junior, i know all love them ha– climbatree
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    Dog-earFeb 29, 12, 7:02 a.m. – Permalink

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