IE10 to ditch flash
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- monolith0
Starling open source framework for Flash = pretty damn impressive
http://www.starling-framework.or…HTML5 that.
- i_monk0
^ "working with" can mean anything from repeatedly saying "Please?" to actually coding stuff.
- zarkonite0
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/n…
"... Adobe is working with Microsoft in hopes that Flash can eventually appear on the Windows Phone platform."
- Thats what they said when the iPhone launchedanimatedgif
- ernexbcn0
@monolith you make it sound like Flash behaves the same on Win, OS X and Linux. It's only decent on Windows, the rest have their issues and speed differences.
- monolith0
My long response but it has to be said since there's so much ignorance and hate exhibited by some people.
Metro IE doesn't support any plugins..not just Flash.. so this is not an anti-flash move per-se. It's actually more of a fuck you to Silverlight developers.
If anyone is deluded that Flash won't be around for another decade think again. HTML5 is nowhere near being able to compete. Sure it can do basic video and audio and you can write 15 lines of code in CSS to make sure it works on a couple of browser (which basically about 40% of people can even see) but this is all basic stuff. The only thing and effect that works crossbrowser and is some what doable i HTML5 is this parallax scrolling and it's becoming a joke because every single site is doing it and look exactly the same..I'm not even getting into whole HTML5 separation between browsers, specific APIs that will only work with a specific browser.
We are already seeing it btw.. HTML5 in Metro is something internally called Metro HTML5 and is relying on underlying WinRT.. Same with Chrome and Native Client which only works with Chrome (Firefox is doing their own thing).. Same thing goes with CSS3 and upcoming ECMAScript 5. It is such a clusterfuck I don't even know where to begin to address it.
If some of you truly believe that HTML5/CSS3/JS will somehow magically work everywhere the same with same performance and same code you are bat shit crazy. Just ask Big Spaceship and what they went through in making that Adobe presentation for HTML5. They literally dropped a 3rd testicle and wasted so much time just to get it to run decent.
The reason Apple and Microsoft even Google support HTML5 is because it's free and because they get to control everything since they are making the browsers and with HTML5, that's where real control lies. Instead of plugins, which are basically executables/libraries done by 3rd parties, big boys now want to do their own thing. So we will see HTML5+ stuff popping up in IE10, Webkit specific stuff happening on Chrome/Apple stuff (already happens with CSS3 and specific things that only work with Safari for example).
What you will see is 5 different levels of code in HTML5 apps in order to work on Metro IE, on webkit browsers, on Firefox etc etc.. While some aspects of HTML5 will work on every browser (such as elementary tags and audio and video) the rest of the stuff being made like certain native API support (such as microphone and cameras and so on) are going to differ from platform to platform.
Plugins have ALWAYS brought innovation. W3C and web standards evolve SUPER slowly and plugins allow 3rd party companies to evolve the web and do more things across every browsers supporting <object> and <embed> tags.
If you don't like proprietary, then you certainly don't like h.264 as well. So let's kill h.264 too. I'd say h.264 is worse than any plugin because it requires licensing, while plugins are completely free. There is value in proprietary technologies as well, ESPECIALLY when the standards are simply not growing fast enough to bring new features. This will be no different with HTML5 and why HTML5 spec still allows embed tag.
Imagine what web would look like if we relied on W3C and the mess they did with earlier versions of HTML. HTML5 is just slightly better bringing a few more features but so loosely standardized that every browser maker can do their own shit on top of it (such as the case with codecs for video).If plugin, Flash or Silverlight or whatever is so inferior, then HTML5 will force it out of existence by itself by being a better platform. The way Apple and Microsoft are trying to do it is to manipulate again the web landscape for their own benefit. It has nothing to do with battery life, or performance (which btw, Flash is better at than HTML5, especially on mobile).
It is not up to a corporation to prevent technology. It should be up to developers and consumers. Android is a very good example. There is absolutely zero downside in having Flash. It's 100% choice. You don't like it, or you believe it drains your battery or whatever, just don't install it.. Simple as that.
This is why Google is doing it the right way. They allow Flash, they push HTML5 and a very good example of that is diversity and beautiful interactive applications you can find on Chrome Store which use Flash and HTML5 and whatever.
They also solve the security issues by sandboxing the plugins so the user has complete choice. Only in this retarded new Apple age where two most proprietary companies are like pushing open standards (yeah right!) it is ok to start banning specific technologies who are btw, far more superior than HTML5 is at the moment and will be in the next 5-10 years. It's so funny, because two companies known for delivering tools and services across platforms and open support plugins and Flash (Adobe and Google). This thing is so funny.
Btw, Flash will not die (better yet, Flash platform), it will eventually migrate to native apps just as it is now. It's still going to be at the forefront of new 3D games and so on (especially since Unity is now exporting to Flash) And very simple example of that is Machinarium. The best selling game on iOS for example. Game is completely built in Flash.
Adobe is doing a smart thing. They are pushing HTML5 tools as this space is completely empty and in the mean time they are pushing native app development with AIR/Flash Builder/Flash as that's really where to future is going. Nobody will care about the web in the long run as mobile and tablet computing grows.
- ernexbcn0
Adobe can release a good toolset to take advantage of canvas, js, etc. with their current knowledge. They are already starting to do it.
I welcome the death of the Flash Player, but I hope Adobe keeps releasing good tools and adapt themselves to this new environment.
- I'll welcome the death of Flash when there's a real replacement for it. I don't think anyone's close.CyBrainX
- obsolete0
I've said this before:
This way microsoft will buy adobe at a sale price
it makes business sense
and ios (this is my prediction) will be a niche OS in a year or two. Specially now with steve jobs out of the picture....
but again flash needs a lot of improvement for mobile and tablet applications....
I guess adobe fell asleep on the whell... and maybe they woke up with the apple bump... and if they didn´t they will with this one!
just my 2 cents
- animatedgif0
"Still waiting for someone to show me an amazing, polished, smooth and functional HTML5 site"
http://vaggvisor.kampanj.ikea.se…
Kicks the shit out of even the best uses of Flash video
- CyBrainX0
The conspiracy is Jobs'. His restriction of 3rd party content and Flash is merely a way to protect revenue from app development.
- formed0
That's the part that I don't get about all this - what's the point? We are going back about 10 years.
Is this just a conspiracy to kill Adobe?? Hmmm....
Still waiting for someone to show me an amazing, polished, smooth and functional HTML5 site.....waiting......
- There are loads.Mojo
- Please show meformed
- Try these http://www.qbn.com/t…CyBrainX
- Mojo0
@nb "I think it's because Flash isn't just beautiful sites. It's a whole lot of bullshit, with the occasional good site."
So everything based in HTML/JS/CSS isn't bullshit? Sorry, no. The world is full of bullshit, with the occasional good thing. That's not Flash, that's the general human experience.
And if you think you are going to see animated advertising disappear, just because flash is 'dead', you really shouldn't hold your breath - you're going to get the same tired, animated advertising delivered in a whole new exciting way - HTML & CSS..
Long live the internet!
- Exactly, people blame the technology for what it's being used for. That's the bullshit.CyBrainX
- + gazillion. Ad agencies aren't going to stop making online ads. Online advertising makes more money than sites.fyoucher1
- A lot more.fyoucher1
- Sure, but it will be far more difficult for a hack amateur to crash my browser. Currently, they can crash simply by not trying.nb
- trying.nb
- Also, it's not the animation in advertising that I mind. It's when the ad uses up so much of my system that bothers me.nb
- Your second paragraph is correct, though. There will be plenty of shit sites, but they won't slow me down. Hopefully.nb
- nb - your browser set up must be crap if a flash ad crashes it - never had that problemfadein11
- CyBrainX0
jon_d,
I accept your criticism, but disagree on several points.
1. I've been designing for 16 years and haven't had any problems getting work. I stand by anything on my site. My site design is simple because it's supposed to let the work stand on it's own. It should be simple and functional.2. The use of html would work but I have no reason not to use Flash since almost all of the pieces on the site are Flash to begin with.
3. Video: Flash is best for cross platform video. Keep in mind the site is two years old.
I think your basic objection to my work is my choice to use Flash. It seems like a lot of bias.
Care to display any of your work. I won't critique unless you want. Just curious.
- fyoucher10
Timeline in Flash is awesome and you CAN do awesome things with it. After FX / Video is cool too but I don't see bandwidth allowing for it anytime soon (just will be too costly for the mainstream especially with companies capping bandwidth and my excessive use of 30 second pron site flicks).
HTML5 (CSS/JQ) has some basic animation capabilities but it 'will' be like working in Flash 4/5. Kind of a setback but I'm still exciting to learn something new. It 'does' make sense to not have a plugin.
Can't talk about it much (on NDA) but there will be a timeline-based animation tool VERY similar to Flash coming out for HTML5 (not Adobe Edge). So don't worry too much Flash animation folks.
- I agree, but why is is bad to depend on a plug in. It wasn't even much of a problem in the 90s.CyBrainX
- Updates, security issues, shit like that that's separate from the browserfyoucher1
- Yeah cos the 90's were great for the internet... oh waitanimatedgif
- hotroddy0
and I heard google will kill javascript with Dart.
- ukit0
How about we discuss these issue without resorting to personal attacks. His personal website has no bearing on his opinion on the topic.
