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you have $25k (i don't) is it better to buy a brand new car or an older, better model?
What would you buy with an imaginary 25k budget?
- also must be a 4 door sedan or hatchback._niko
- 25k is not much for a decent quality brand new car. You'd be buying upper economy to middle range stuff.Muncher
- But 25k can buy you an awful lot of highly desirable older stuff that has merely depreciated sharply.Muncher
- And 25k would buy you a well sorted retro or classic car.Muncher
- 5 yrs old will get you a 50k car for less than 25k. 25k new is Kia, Mazda, Toyota.Muncher
- Audi A4formed
- I'd buy a pre owned Subaru. Those things last forever, always score high on Consumer Reports, and are known for being reliable - get more for your $ over time.whatthefunk
- 3/5 seriesimbecile
- It seems to me older cars are often better built, newer cars offer bullshit features like the latest Bluetooth connectivity or lame gps_niko
- If you spent $15k on a used Subaru and put the other $10k in a savings account for repairs when needed... it will probably be around longer than you will.nb
- Yeah I quite like Subarus couldn't get a WRX for that kind of money but a decent Impreza is doable_niko
- +1 Subaru, though you'll find that they hold their value well in used market = They're pricey. Good you don't get a WRX. Anything turbo is asking for repairs.monNom
- Buy 2000 Honda, pocket 22kfuturefood
- 2000 year model, last you into next decade ****futurefood
- Lol currently driving a 07 accord, 270k km on it and it feels like it could easily do another 270k!_niko
Not wanting to return to the "old cars vs new cars" discussion of a few days back, but this does unfortunately touch upon it in the sense that none of the vehicles listed in this list of BritGov collated horror stories are old vehicles, they're all modern vehicles.
Just thought it might be interesting to car heads here. I found it horrifyingly fascinating, and also just plain horrifying in the sense that we are at any time travelling at 80mph next to, in front of, or behind shit like this on the road...
The rusted subframe on the Vauxhall Zafira for example. Rusted so bad the inspector assumed it was a problem with the font suspension. And all because the rusting subframe was hidden from view by purely cosmetic plastic cladding making it easy for the owner of the car to just assume everything was perfectly okay.
- yup, it's pretty insane how unsafe old cars areformed
- This link came up because in the UK the govt has just decided that cars over 40 years old are no longer required to have safety checks...Muncher
- ... the rationale being that cars over 40 years old are well maintained by knowledgeable owners and so less of a risk, statistically speaking, than newer cars.Muncher
- The UK classic car community are now in uproar/meltdown because it also means that any car with significant modifications will be excluded from the ruling...Muncher
- and will have to have BIVA or IVA testing, a special Q-plate, Annual safety checks, and a high rate of road tax.Muncher
- I thank Yaweh I sold my radically altered 60's racing saloon and got a stock 70's rumbler instead. Feel sorry for the bloke who bought my old car though. = (Muncher
- "will have to have BIVA or IVA testing, a special Q-plate, Annual safety checks, and a high rate of road tax" AND an ultra high insurance rating.Muncher
- It's the death of hot rodding in the UK for sure.Muncher
- It also means that people with no previous car skill/experience can buy shitbox classic wrecks and drive them around for free tax, low insurance, and no tests.Muncher
- ...which will further damage the reputation of classic cars and their owners.Muncher
- ... and perpetuate the common myth that old cars are unreliable, dangerous and prone to failure.Muncher
I doubt they'll take that form, for the exact reasons you state, re: airfields and roads, pure fucking danger.
The thing is, the AI to control a flying vehicle is likely a lot simpler than the levels of AI already deployed in the likes of a Tesla - purely because there's a greater range of predictability than on the ground. That implies that some sort of airborne commuting vehicle, if physically/electrically possible, almost becomes probable.
It's that curve that Volocopter in Germany's charting, and they've even recently secured a fairly large amount of investment from Daimler..
I doubt we'll ever see flying cars as imagined in the 60s or so — jets with idiot humans on the stick.
- Hovering mobile vehicles, yes.. I can see that happening. But stuff that depends on thrust for flight... not a chance hahah.Muncher
- although... my wife watched some program last night about astronaut training, and I watched parts of it. The first...Muncher
- test was whether they could hold a gyrocopter stable for 15 seconds. They were RAF pilots and other very clever people, and none of them could do it!Muncher
- This show. Worth a watch if you didn't see it Det.
- < Its pretty cool that this thing doesn't require a tail rotor. It must be a heck of a lot more stable than the 'big spinning blades' school of helicoptorology.Muncher
- Yeah, anything that happens along this road will involve an app that states pick way points and that's it. No human control at all. Perhaps the AC. Perhaps.detritus
- Chinooks don't require a tail rotor either - they're solely required when you've just the one set of big spinning choppy bastards.detritus
- ...he states, obviously.detritus
- Oh yes, I see what you mean. State your destination tech + impact avoidance tech, and that's it. That would work... as much as anything ever actually works.Muncher
- all about the batteriesformed
This year's flying car concept creating a buzz, like all the others going back to circa 1999.
I love the fact that people are pushing at this, but I wonder why so many people throw so much money at developing these things. They sit on a fault line between road use and aviation and can't be used for either.
You wouldn't be allowed to use airfields, and you wouldn't be allowed on the road. The best innovation that anyone could focus on when trying to bring about the dawn of personal airborne transport is to tackle the rules and legislation that defines what's possible.
And then after that, design and get approved a whole new set of laws, rules, and operational networks that these hybrids can use.
Then it might be worth investing millions in developing a product.
At which point anyone who might buy one would realise that it's quicker to drive from point to point than to fly around the circuitous safety route needed to get their by carplane.
Good effort though. Well done.
- lol. where is this from?VectorMasked
- "putting oil in the engine"trooperbill
- You're doing okay, but make sure you torque the plenum bypass orchestrator... and PUT SOME DAMN OVERALLS ON.Muncher
- I saw a similar video years ago, but with a Ferrari or something pricey. Stupid.sofakingback
- There was another one of a Redbull promo girl filling her Redbull promo mini with cans of Redbull because she'd run out of fuel.Muncher
- < This one has to be fake though. Camerawork, styling and lighting say 'slapstick movie clip' to me.Muncher
- It's from a german comedy-show. https://www.youtube.…Longcopylover
- haha Muncher :)monospaced
start @ 1:23
- my uncle has his still - brown with glitter/sparlkes (or whatever you cal that paint finish)Gnash
- ^ what do you know about cars, poser!Gnash
- (thanks, Muncher :)Gnash
- I like those too.sofakingback
- Also, it's called Metallic Paint if the sparkles are small and can't distinguish them immediately. This form is most commonly used on carssofakingback
- Then theres metal flake, which is has bigger flakes and are very distinguishable. Candy, just refers to the color type. You can have candy paint without flakes.sofakingback
- Although candy paints usually have a different mixture application process than normal auto paint, which gives it that dynamic look hot rod guys likesofakingback
- automotive paint is insane and a nightmare. But the end results can be mind blowing.sofakingback
- Yeah.love these.Muncher
- Yes! I luv me some mopar. Used to tear up the town riding in my friend's 71 roadrunner w/ 440.bezoar
- I went to a big Mopar meet-up on Sunday... but I didn't take any pics - I rely on everyone else posting their own pics on social media... and nobody has hahahMuncher
currently obsessing over 1960-70 (pre power cap) classic american muscle cars. no idea how to import one to the uk or maintain one but #midlifecrisis lol
loving the plymouth fury, amc amx etc
- There are lots of examples already in the UK, and lots of forums where they are bought and sold, and importing them is quite easy (but can be pricey and risky)Muncher
- ebay is surprisingly good for US muscle. Only issue you get with yanks in UK is when you need a part you have to wait months sometimes to find it.Muncher
- '67 Fury, £8k...
- Dude, those AMC AMX are siiiiiiiiiiick. They might not have a great build reputation, but the aesthetics are awesome. love'emsofakingback
- These look like good fixer-uppers, but it depends on your budget. I tend to go cheap and broken, then fix...Muncher
- This one could be a problem child...http://www.e...Muncher
- Yea, I can't afford anything thats trending. Which makes for some interesting options.sofakingback
- One word of advice... never buy a convertible classic car.Muncher
- (^ To TrooperBill)Muncher
- Wife's uncle has 3 1970 Dodge Challengers in his barn. One he's restoring with another parts car. And another numbers matching t/a that needs frame off resto.dirtydesign
My current car isn't a car I'm very fond of or attached to. It was a cheap consolation prize to replace a much loved and unique car I owned before it. I had to get rid of that though because it was all custom engineering and very expensive to have as a road car (it was a track racer that was converted from a factory built works rally car in 1960), and I decided to leave my job just as it really needed a bespoke throwout bearing with a special bearing race made from scratch to replace the one that had finally worn out after 50 years of hard competition. So that went back into the hands of a racing team and I bought something cheap and easy to tide me over, with a view to selling it on after a year of enjoying it. I'm two years in to owning it now but will be selling it in the Spring and I hope to buy one of these because I've always wanted one...
Vintage pan-American rally rebuild. *DROOOOL* And you can get a replica of Fangio's original pan-American Chevy too *DROOOOL*
- so dope, I love those pan-amaerican rally cars. So you're trying to buy that one?sofakingback
- No not that one. These things are built on commission to enter into serious long distance rallies, and the people who commission them quickly want to upgrade...Muncher
- So there is a heathy market in cars that have done a couple of campaigns and are put up for sale. The owners rarely understand mechanics, so they'll...Muncher
- sell them on because something is busted, and they will require some work but are essentially good solid vehicles. Hard life for cars tho, long distance ralliesMuncher
- I'll look at what's available next year. Buy cheap, fix the busted bits, live happily ever after.Muncher
- The kind of starter cars I will be looking at are slightly underpowered which is the main reason for upgrading, but easily good enough for road use. =)Muncher
- very cool. start up that thread, keep us posted theresofakingback
- eh, I'm a ways of buying one of these yet. I have to sell mine first.Muncher
gentlemen, gentlemen, lets get back to the real issue here.
Why hasn't Jesus answered my prayers and blessed me with my dream car yet?!?!?!?!
ugh, been drooling over this car for 20 years now. It just gets more and more expensive too. fuck.
Muncher you got on some self-induced delusion ride making up claims i never made. To say "don't buy old car unless you like fixing shit" doesn't automatically mean that old cars aren't reliable (as in it does start all the time and drives). They are quite basics devices devoid of computers so they will run unit something major breaks down. You are, as pointed out by sofaking above denying basic physics and chemistry which annoys me more than your personal insinuation about how little i supposedly know about cars. The never-ending list of shit i had to do to my garage kept, fixed-at-dealership, well-cared-for car should at least clue you in that you are not talking to someone who never held a screwdriver - so have some basic respect. You can keep your car in a garage and drive it for 1 mile every few months and 45 year old rubber will deteriorate. Period. And there is way more rubber on cars than just door seals. The padding will turn to dust after decades and vinyl will start showing small cracks here and there. This is not, as i stayed already, due to lack of maintenance but because chemistry and physics. You can keep you car in your living room and massage it every day before going to sleep and you will still run into shit like speedo cable starts grinding inside the speedometer. Nowhere in the maintenance books does it say - lubricate the speedo cable - because no maintenance book assumes people keeping a car for 45 years.
Cars this old, no matter how much love they got in their life, will slowly break down. All rubber components will have to be slowly replaced and you will have to re-lube strange places you never think of lubbing up. Unless you love it (and i personally don't mind it at all) or want to keep on discovering new "shit to fix" every few weeks - don't buy an old car or spend $$$ to buy a totally re-built car (in essence a new car). Don't take my word for it. Go to any classic car forum and they will tell you the same thing: you have to love that car as you are in for a long ride.
Again, this doesn't mean you will not love that you know exactly how your machine works. You will visit every nook and cranny of your car and know intimately what makes it go and there is tremendous sense of satisfaction it. This "know how shit works" is more important to me than countless hours i've put (and still am) into fixing it but i'm certain someone else might not be so keen about spending so much time in their garage.
- So, Why did you add a fuel pressure regulator, and where did you fit it? Can you tell me which type of fuel pump you have? and what the new carburetor is?...Muncher
- ... because I'm interested in learning from somebody with far greater experience and knowledge such as yourself.Muncher
- I'd love to know what grade of fuel line you fitted when you were replacing the carb and presumably the fuel pump, and fitting a new carb.Muncher
- Because it would be dumb as shit to fit a shiny new carb but keep on using old fuel hose that's being eaten by modern fuel. What kind of fuel hose did you use?Muncher
- (and fitting a new fuel pressure regulator^^)Muncher
- and can we see your car too please? That would be awesome. I'd love to see what a proper classic car guy drives.Muncher
- Heres a few shots of me and my buddy pulling his V8 to replace head gaskets and intake manifold. Took us a whole morning because we're so clueless haha!...Muncher
- ^ Started at 9am but didn't get thing back on the road until almost 2pm, what with new headgaskets and various other things we decided to do.Muncher
- on every classic car forum (and i'm part of 2) there is always one guy who talks a lot but when it comes to details, he runs away.pr2
- it seems you are one of those guys.pr2
- you think you can catch someone's fallacy by pointing out that you don't need fuel pressure regulator with electric pump but it's only proving how limited...pr2
- ...your knowledge is. Some carbs, i bet you didn't know that, require lower pressure than even mech pump outputs.pr2
- any other questions that reveal more about you?pr2
- you clearly are not afraid to get your hands dirty but i suspect when it comes to theory, why shit works the way it does, you would rather skip that class.pr2
- i can bang on the wall with "shit gets old - those are the rules of the universe" and you still would answer "no it doesn't" to which all i can do ...pr2
- ...is tell you to vote for Trump again.pr2
- Oh dear. Nothing you say makes any sense. You're just lashing out angrily. Sorry I upset you. Just enjoy your car and learn as you go.Muncher
- 2 pieces of advice based on 30 years of experience: 1 focus on getting the mechanicals rights and sweet before you start doing the cosmetic stuff.Muncher
- 2 Don't add anything to try and solve a problem. It might appear to work, but you haven't solved the problem, and it will get worse...Muncher
- Very few old road cars need a fuel pressure regulator, and if it didn't come with one from factory, it wont need one now unless you have made significant mods.Muncher
- Significant mods doesn't mean changing the carb. You may need a different pump, or somebody removed your RTT, or your carb float is set wrong, or wrong jets.Muncher
- Happy to have a chat directly/offline if you want to discuss any issues. I may be able to help.Muncher
- I'd be interested to know what the symptoms are that you have tried to fix with the FPR. I suspect you either have wrong pump, busted pump, or air in fuel.Muncher
- And finally, I do concede your original point to a degree... it's a gamble buying old cars, but it's not a given that it will always be a lot of work...Muncher
- I buy cars that don't run, and I make them run again. Once they are right, they are easy to live with and reliable. It's cars that are not looked after well...Muncher
- that cause problems for people getting into classic cars for the first time. My current car is a 73 - still on a lot of its original rubber parts. True story!Muncher
I've been surprised recently reading a fair amount of forum feedback around tehwebs about how apparently poor quality a lot of German and luxury cars are and how much time they spend getting fixed up in the garage over a couple year span - and these are new cars. This from the context of people defending/accusing electric cars of having more/less problems and service issues.
I grew up believing german cars were unreproachable and I guess I'd assumed that luxury would equate to well-built.
Point is, I'm no mechanic but I'm fairly confident I could bluster my way through basic repairs and maintenance on an older car, but whenever I see under the hood of a modern car, it's not even magic — it's like staring at an epoxy-coated microchip — it's a total fucking mystery where anything even is, never mind how to fix it.
- Today is the day of run-on sentences, apparently.detritus
- I'm not too sure I ended up resolving a point in all that. Apos.detritus
- You make a good point. It simply isn't possible to self-maintain a modern car without some serious diagnostic equipment, proprietary skills and...Muncher
- a willingness to throw away a whole chunk of the car just because a bulb or a sensor has died.Muncher
- As for German stuff. It used to be thoroughly over-engineered. Get a W123 or W124 Merc and you're good for life (with care and maintenance)Muncher
- but the German auto industry learned to downgrade quality for economy from the rest of the world and now they are no more sturdy or reliable than anyone else's.Muncher
Okay so I'm going to concede that there is an overlap between your point PR2 and my own. And I agree with Sofaking that older cars are not for everyone, because part of the deal with owning old cars is that you ought to really be able to take advantage of the fact you can do a lot of the ongoing maintenance work yourself, rather than paying out a tonne of money to specialists who do very simple things for you because you can't do them.
So I think the experience between old and new is simply that old means you should know what's going on yourself, and you need to maintain it yourself (and enjoy that as part of the experience), and new means you drive around without so much as lifting the hood even once (why bother... there's a big piece of logo-embellished plastic underneath that's shaped like the top of an engine, and it hides the engine below) and you drop it off once a year to specialists, and pay for other people do do simple maintenance and prevention work for you, without ever really understanding what they've done.
I get a little bit annoyed by the perception that old cars are unreliable though, because they are really quite the opposite. My car is 44 years old (or 45 going by PR2's estimate) and it has survived climate, hundreds of thousands of miles, and periods of neglect and is a turn key faultless driver.
That's not a definition of unreliable, that's the very definition of reliable. And sure, stuff will be wearing out, but how many of today's cars will still be on the road in 15 year's time...
... very few. Because there is so much more stuff that can become obsolete and un-replaceable on modern cars.
- I think my old vs new point is made adequately if you visit any forum that gathers modern car drivers together, because they are full of people...Muncher
- asking for help because they have a juddering clutch, a water leak, locked brakes, error codes that put their cars into limp mode, sensor problems....Muncher
- ... hard starting, overheating, weird noises, wobbly steering etc etc.Muncher
- But people say "Old cars are hard work"... it's bullshit. Looking after a car is hard work, full stop, and shit goes wrong on every age and every brand of car.Muncher
- 2013 BMW...
- 2017 Honda CRV...
- Car forums are populated by millions of people with modern car problems they can't solve themselves.Muncher
- new cars are plagued with either poor assembly years or faulty equipment. But thats not always the case, there's good new cars out there. Few, but there are.sofakingback
- I agree that older cars are just as reliable as new cars. But I'll say this, new cars tend to have a more comfortable daily driver experience.sofakingback
- I love my old cars, but daily driving them can be a pain some times. Not to mention the fear of having someone damage the car.
When I use a new car, I rest...sofakingback
- a little easier. There's nothing cool about it though, its like brushing my teeth or doing laundry. ZZzzzzzz....sofakingback
Im not gonna read all that shit, but I'll say this about owning an older car. It's not for everyone.
I own a 74, 87, 87, 80.
2 ground up builds, 2 "well maintained/low miles"
I don't give a shit who you are, how pristine, well kept, low miles, etc. After 30 years, shit breaks, hardens, rusts, etc. Rubber is the worst, it cracks all over the fucking car. Motor mounts and suspension rubber especially.
You want an old car? Ok, cool. Just set aside coin to replace essential parts.
On the positive side, these cars feel amazing once you get them back to spec.
- Yeah, true it's not for everyone, but when people do it and then bitch about it I think "You only have yourself to blame" because...Muncher
- shit will break on a modern car too, but it's all hidden behind a screen of ignorance about how cars work when you buy something modern.Muncher
- Post pics of your cars Sofaking... would love to see them. I can put some of mine too, although my car is fucking filthy at the moment. = )Muncher
- I was just gonna say, I've owned new cars too and those are more costly when something goes wrong. Old cars can be fixed by just about anyone.sofakingback
- I avoid having electronics like power windows when I can, its a nightmare when you can't figure out whats wrong with the system. at least with 80s carssofakingback
- I have somewhere on this thread, i can post again if its not seen as attention whoring. lolsofakingback
- I also prefer to avoid any fancy electrics. Post them up. Maybe we should have a different thread for car owners stuff.Muncher
- that would be cool. great ideasofakingback
PR2 you are clearly inexperienced and got ripped off, because there is an ocean of disparity between the classic car descriptor "Pristine" which you have used, and the long list of faults you have listed as being present over the last 9 months. You've been seduced by some car polish and bought a shiny dud. You also list some frankly hilarious items of maintenance, but let's not get distracted.
Pristine is not a polished car that hasn't been inspected. Pristine is a well maintained car. Clearly you have paid a high price for a badly maintained car. Don't condemn all old cars because of your own ignorance about what constitutes pristine or not.
As for me I've owned my current 1973 car for around two years and it has had one failed component in that time, the brake servo.
I paid a small price for the car, and it came to me with lots of apparent running faults. On paper its apparent faults would have added up to a seriously faulty vehicle to anyone that didn't have very much knowledge.
It took me half a day to get the car running sweet, and it has run sweet ever since. I do do maintenance checks on the car and will decide whether or not I want to take action to prevent further problems as and when I feel I should, but my car is as good and reliable as my wife's 2017 car, with the added assurance that it was built strong enough to still be on the road 44 years later without issue, and designed and built in such a way that there is almost no issue at all that cannot be dealt with using simple tools and a few hours.
This week I decided to drain and change the diff oil for example. This is not something that is relevant only to old cars. All cars need their mechanical fluids changed regularly. But it's hard to do on modern cars, and nobody even knows that it needs doing anymore, so new cars don't get all of their fluids changed annually as they should, and as a result new cars can incur serious knock-on effect problems. To change my diff oil I had to raise the car, remove the Watts Linkage and lower my rear axle onto jack stands due to the position of the filler nut. It took three spanners, a jack and two sets of jack stands, and about an hour to complete. I did it outside my house in the street. It cost me nothing but the price of 1litre of differential oil. In a modern car that could have cost me about £200 in garage time at a guess, and would have come with other charges for additional things that were discovered whilst doing this.
When my wife's car needs its fluids changing, she will have to take it back to the dealership and pay for it to be done by their certified technicians because it's nigh on impossible for the owner to do it now for various reasons. She will have to pay $X00s to get it done, but it has to be done. It's no different.
Modern car owners suffer from 'out of sight and out of mind' and assume their cars don't need any maintenance. They do need maintenance, but all the owners know about is the service bill that they have to pay, which lists additional things they didn't ask for and so they are certain it is an attempt to rip them off. It's ridiculous really to own a car, never do a damn thing to check or maintain it, and then grumble in suspicion that the garage that is looking after your car for you is ripping you off. They are merely trying to keep you safe by doing what needs to be doing, but if you don't understand cars, you can't understand that.
When people first buy classic cars they try to transfer their 'modern blissful ignorance' approach to old cars, and then find they have problems. You'd have the exact same issues if you bought a new car and failed to have it maintained though, in just a few short years.