I'm Fired..
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- SteveJobs
Up!
I've got a question for anyone who's ever freelanced or knows anyone who's freelanced or just likes to share their opinions despite lack of relevance.
I've been mulling this over the last few months and have been thinking about the idea of working collaboratively with other freelancers. I know this does happen frequently and possibly to the extent I'm about to explain, which is OK, as I'm mostly interested in the viability of such a scheme.
My idea is to form a temporary partership. Not too different from a group of fellows you might recruit to form a football league, or something of that nature. The structure would be simple, efficient and quite effective, I think:
Basically you'd have a developer, a web and/or print designer, a lead finder and perhaps a few others, if necessary.
The benefits here are obvious:
1) Set your own hours (which might be longer than in a corporate environment, but who cares)
2) Work as a team to land better jobs, which means:
a) Less smaller jobs
b) Less hunting for jobs
c) Build a collaborative portfolio
d) Potentially form a business around the partnership if successfull
e) Walk away with a lot more experience than working in corporate
d) A collective intelligence - so no more, or at least fewer mistakes with contracts or clients not taking your demands for payment seriously. As a group, an attorney is much more attainable.I could go on, but you get the idea
I've been working as a developer for a decade now, and have a lot of experience in both web and desktop platform development. C/C++, C#, Flash, Flex, AS3, iPhone, Win32, OS X, OpenGL, etc, etc. The point is, with a solid designer(s) and someone to find our leads, I think this could be a lucrative opportunity.
What do you think?
- d_rek0
I'll put what mildly relevant opinions I have up there. I have been freelancing since 2005 and working professionally in smaller, boutique studio environments since 2007.
I personally think it's a great idea. If I had the revenue to be able to hold out for a few months until the dough started rolling in i would love to be in this type of situation.
However, it would really depend on the type of partners/coworkers you can attract. They have to be reliable, hard-working individuals who don't need to be hand-held or babysat.
I think you're right though in thinking that it could be a successful model for a small, lightweight operation.
- plash0
quality people have always been the problem.
and how would the split happen.the sales would take a commission (20%-30%) / no base
crowdsource the design.? (for cheap concepts)
dev would take his/her cut
and that leaves how much to put back into the business?I've always romanced myself thinking it would work but the reality is ..donno..
- noneck0
It works great if everything is completely balanced, which it never is.
How do you split expenses? Revenue?
The money will fuck everything up in the end.
- MSTRPLN0
How would you split the moneys?
- < Bingo. Tread lightly.luckyorphan
- they look just like the one's i lost. you found them. thank you. here's a dollar. lol.akrokdesign
- bigbaby530
I want in!!
- johndiggity0
so you want to start an agency?
- < that's what I was thinkingmonospaced
- or a firm?brodster
- geoffism0
Steve-
quit worrying about freelancing and get that tablet into market!in all seriousness, if you can find people that can help "round out" a team, then yes, by all means, do it. It will help eliminate the potential of you not getting a project based on your skill set. All your points are valid (stonger portfolio, collective intel, etc...).
I've known people to do this type of set up before (correct, this has been done before), and the biggest thing you need to worry about with bigger projects is $$$. And I don't mean getting paid, its more about taxes, revenue sharing and LLC/s-corp/Inc type things.
And then you get to figure out what you are going to call yourself, and who's name goes on the door.
good luck.
- SteveJobs0
While money is important, the collective goal is independence - at least initially, and eventually each persons motivations will guide them, I suppose. That's human nature and can't be helped.
But I also have good intuition, I think, and can spot a waste of time from a mile away - so my choices of partnerships would be critical.
- money is the only thing important don't kid yourselfrodzilla
- plash0
sales / leads 10% (industry standard)
outsource design ( 200/300 bills)
dev: always use cms for foundations. (by project?)
and hire a PM full time to coronate
- akrokdesign0
here you go --->
- waste-o-time/ self masturbation video.plash
- hahahaakrokdesign
- luckyorphan0
I don't mean to rain on any parades, but while it is a wonderful idea, it is fraught with potential issues and liabilities.
But rather than go into them, simply consider that finding a partner is like finding a spouse. The match has to be really really tight, so that when things go south (and they will again and again and again – countless times through the years), you know that you can all handle the tough times, impossible deadlines, costly mistakes, unexpected complications, deep sacrifices and difficult conversations.
That being said, many partnerships have worked, and have blossomed into excellent firms with solid track records. You just have to really take your time and build the relationship slowly.
Sincerely,
Been there. Done that. No thanks.
- ethanfink0
This is exactly what I am doing right now.
I have been freelancing / running a small buisness for 3 years now in the industry. The best way to expand and work collaboratively is to work in a building with other creative professionals. Currently I work in a large building with 50+ studios. Many of them I would never work with, because I don't have the need for a fine artist who works in collage only. However, there are many animators, video, photographers, designers, programmers whom I would and do use for side projects.
We all end up using each other for projects, and who knows. Maybe we will open up a large shop together one day.
- plash0
^
sadly he'll never be the largest digital media agency.
not unless he can get into the advertising industry. http://adage.com/agencyfamilytre…while the dude in the video claims to have invested 2 mil,
Alliance Data Systems claimed over 491 mil in rev this year (2009).
and mind you they never sport that they can make really cool websites.market research and data mining are where us "little" guys need to do. thats why SEO is more profitable then a nifty website.
- and mind you ADS is one of the smaller agenciesplash
- "sadly he'll never be the largest digital media agency. " true!akrokdesign
- johndiggity0
the realities will be:
who is paying the new business guy? is it commission? how is it determined? where are you working/receiving correspondence? how is payment of a job split amongst the members? how are disputes handled? who is liable is someone sues (a lawyer will not represent the group unless it is formalized)? who pays for the attorney? is there insurance? 401k? who's paying for supplies? how is everyone going to file their taxes? are you legal to do that in your state(s)?
i'm not trying to deter you, but if this was easy, none of us would be working for assholes; we'd just go set up own own shops. the reality is that there are a lot of logistics and things that can go wrong (badly) and if this is something you are serious about, it's best to formalize it as an llc or subchapter s corporation, if not solely for the tax implications.
a collective may sound cool in theory, but in reality it's mostly a bunch of people that don't understand business and end up mad at each other down the road.
- you're not detering me. this is exactly why i raised the issue, to get informed feedback :)SteveJobs
- Couldn't have said it any better.luckyorphan
- plash0
i think micro payments is where its at...
- fyoucher10
I've thought about this many a times and here are trhe issues that have always come up.
- No one lives near me or close enough. Working together remotely has its problems. Who's your boss when you have no boss -- you. And you know you're the best boss ever with your getting to work late everyday, one minute breaks every few hours, and leaving work early. With that in mind, you really need an office where you can all work together, for all the same reasons why you went to an office at your last full time job.
- How to split money. Not everyone will spend the same amount of time on each project. But some people have built up there reputation with clients for years. Some people are just more talented than others. How do you factor all of that kind of stuff in. How you gonna divvy up that loot?
- Dedication and Talent. It's hard to find folks to really dedicate to this unless they've been on their own for years and know what it takes. It's also hard to find talented folks. It's even harder to find dedicated and talented folks because normally they already have something going on that works for them. Why should they leave the comfort-ability of their $1500 office chair in their own home and settle for Ikea furniture in some second rate office from the 70's. What do you have that's going to make them get out of their seat?
These are the things that have always popped up when discussing with other folks.
- rusty_ace0
Its sort of funny, this is what an associate of mine is attempting to do...at least on a similar line. What he set up, Essentially it is a social network specifically for motion graphics arts, If you get over loaded you can search for people by skill set, location, check out their reels, build a database of help. Granted you would still have to work out the money issue on a project by project bases. http://www.themotionexchange.com… check it out for some inspiration, maybe you could set up one specifically for developers...or print designers
- akrokdesign0
i think the thing is...
who even you're working with. use them at what they are best at. if they seams to be handle the project with no problem. no need to babysit then. etc.i work with other designer (onsite or offsite). as they are the one who ask or give me the project(s). i see them as the boss / client.
- SteveJobs0
@fyoucher1
This kind of opportunity wouldn't be of any interest to those who are already established.
The type of person this kind of offer attracts are those who've worked corporate for years and are looking for independence. I've worked along side several talented individuals in my years, as I'm sure many of you have, who weren't being used to their full potential. They were smart, had creative ideas, but were oppressed working in a beaurocratic environment, where rank was the final word, not talent.
Some people get tired of that oppression and would happily give up a little security (which these days, such a thing is a myth) for the ability to really put themselves to the test and do something a little more significant with their lives. It's basically an entrepreneurs mentality.
- akrokdesign0
even if you have a partner, and you both say it's 50/50. it won't be. some has to draw the line etc. so it probably more like 60/40 or so.
- the owner gets more + everybody gets paid per projectbrodster