Wire Tapping
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- tommyo0
I couldn't believe when I heard that the approval rating for Bush is 29% and the congress got 11%...I mean, shouldn't we be walking the streets with torches? How low do approval ratings get before we shake the picnic blanket really hard to get rid of the crumbs?
- mrdobolina0
how does that make me feel?
Tommy, you're a dick.
I am not trying to defend democrats. What gets me is you guys say 'they are exactly the same' and they're not, have you watched the debates?
Dems deal with real issues, you might not think so but they actually talk about problems that face pur nation.
Republicans deal with abortion, gay dudes, jesus and the spectre of terrorism.
Havent you noticed that? The demographic they are going for are completely different.
The way I see it is if you arent progressive, get out of the fucking way.
- Mimio0
I really don't blame the Dems for the congress not being able to beat a veto.
- tommyo0
I really don't blame the Dems for the congress not being able to beat a veto.
Mimio
(Oct 9 07, 15:47)It's their own bill they're proposing.
- mrdobolina0
It's their own bill they're proposing.
tommyo
(Oct 9 07, 15:49)tommy, you act like the democrats always agree on everything. they arent in lockstep like the opposition, thus the reason why they disappoint people.
- czawada0
"nice dodge...
members.lycos.nl/dodge... [jpg]k0na_an0k
(Oct 9 07, 13:41)"Indeed, I'll take one of those!
- PonyBoy0
**Begin Essay**
It took Ben Franklin WEEKS to mail a letter to England...
... today he could IM Crouwel and have a font packaged and in his inbox in under 30 seconds (pending on how drunk Crouwel was of course)...
My point?
... if Ben were alive today, Dobs... he'd rethink his stance...
...he was fighting to start a nation...
... it seems that the fight now is to keep that nation together...
... and I'm not proposing a police state of big-brother tactics... but there are times when it's necessary to tap a few fucking phones under good suspicion FFS!!
So my phone accidentally gets tapped and someone hears me having phone sex or worse... ordering a pizza!!!
OH BOO-FUCKING-HOOOO!!
Like I said... 'terra' is real... Don't you think (figuratively) that's it's 'okay' to 'tighten your belt' from time to time...
...so it may be loosened MOST of the time.'Perfect' does not exist... be reasonable.
And SIX YEARS IS NOT REASONABLE.
Bush was right to say (years back) that this 'fight' would continue long past his term... he was right about that.
You know how you have to spend money to make money?... you know how you have to give up a weekend to maybe... oh... clean the house... do some laundry etc etc...
... my point is that you constantly have to 'go back' and adjust in order to maintain for the long-run... sometimes that adjustment requires you give up something you 'cherish' if for only a 'moment'...in order to get it back...
...and I think Ben would agree knowing how easily information can move these days.
**End Essay**
- tommyo0
Rick,
All I was pointing out was that this isn't a case of a Veto, it's a bill being brought forth by democrats. I didn't say that 'they all had a big fucking tea party and Mr. Bear got all of them, yes, including Mrs. Funnypants, to propose a bill. They always tow the party line those stuffed animals!'
- mrdobolina0
nope.
you do know that known anti-war activists are being put on no-fly lists, under surveillance etc, right?
the shit is being abused, thus the reason for no paper trail behind it. that is all it is about. you can tap the fuck out of terrorists phones, but get a court order. a paper trail. accountability, oversight. you know, so that noone becomes a tyrant over it.It blows my mind that the party that doesnt want government in their business are so quick to give away everything.
Seriously, what the fuck does being conservative mean anymore? When I was a kid, conservatives were tough bastards who didnt need the government to do anything for them because they could take care of themselves and sure as hell didnt want the gov digging around their personal business.
kev, did you guys have a meeting where yall flipped the script or was it just an osmosis type thing?
- Mimio0
Tommy are you saying that the president can't veto this bill?
I think that's basically what the article was speculating about, whether or not the bill will include immunity provisions for the previous use of NSA wiretaps outside FISA.
- PonyBoy0
Finish a true conservative description, dobs...
...conservatism involves knowing when to Govern yourselves and when to let the people do their thing...
... this is a time when Gov. is necessary... when there needs to be some ability to find and weed out the 'terra'... cuz it is there - and the only way you're gonna catch them before they get a chance to do anything is to cut into their communication.
I agree w/the paper-trail... and I'm sure there is one for FISA courts... it's just not public - and rightly so... at least until current issues subside and become history... how the hell are you supposed to spy on a criminal... when it's made public that you're spying on them?
... but i see your point about the need to have accountability and a way to go back... checks/balances... I get it - accountability...
... if someone fucks up and someone gets hurt... you gotta have a means of getting to the bottom of the situation... totally agree...
... again... dude... I didn't say we go all-out 'big brother' tactics...
... but there is a need for dire secure secrecy sometime... yes?
See... I haven't read or heard an horror stories yet... perhaps they're covered up?... I dunno...
... but I've yet to hear one... and I see where there could be one.
- BonSeff0
dobs, the flag waiving, god fearing majority has no idea what it means to be a conservative. all they know is, to them, those damn liberals are ruining the country and anyone polarizing enough is good enough.
no matter what special interests are loaded in the back door.
this is god's america after all.
- tommyo0
Mimio,
I believe that the president can veto it. I'm not entirely sure.
Rick,
I agree, I think there should be a paper trail. I'm all for wire tapping...but I think with everything there should be checks and balances. I don't see the harm in getting a judge to take a look at the evidence and approve or disapprove. There should be a court set aside to handle only these sorts of decisions, thus to speed the process...but it should be in the system. Maybe this is what the Dems should have put in their bill...but they didn't. It's the same ol blanket freedom to peek whenever and wherever for whatever reason.
- PonyBoy0
dobs, the flag waiving, god fearing majority has no idea what it means to be a conservative. all they know is, to them, those damn liberals are ruining the country and anyone polarizing enough is good enough.
no matter what special interests are loaded in the back door.
this is god's america after all.BonSeff
(Oct 9 07, 17:24)
---
... and with a comment like that... it's amazing that anything ever gets done...//good stereotyping, seff.
- BonSeff0
the only anything that's been done is a rediculous war debt.
- PonyBoy0
btw...
... conservatives...
... aren't running things right now. ;)
- tommyo0
It's sad Seff but I totally see what you're saying. It's a shame really. Fucked up thing, and I tried to explain this to my conservative grannie is that Bush is one polarizing figure, people either love him or hate him. Hillary is the exact same but on the opposite side. We need someone in between. Hillary can't get elected or it's the same damn thing all over again.
And can someone please stand the fuck up and remind politicians that there is supposed to be separation of Church and State...because right now those two are dry humping in the back of an old Lincoln. The Dems are pulling this god fearing bullshit too. It makes me ill.
- BonSeff0
yeah, right.
6 years of momentum and no breaks in sight. i already said the dem congress is shit.
- Mimio0
Tommy there is such a thing, it's called the FISA court and Bush has been bypassing it for years in the name of "terrorism."
- PonyBoy0
i think... if we all slow down...
... and read each others comments...
...(i'm spacing these statements apart... so you'll read slowly)...
... that...
... we all agree there needs to be a FISA paper trail...
... we all agree the war blowz and is being run horridly by an administration that has polarized itself...
... we all agree that dobs on a bike doing a bunny-hop would fucking rule...
... we all agree that 'true' conservatism DOES NOT exist w/many...if any of our current politicians...
... and we all agree we want 'it' to be better...
...
... fuck... there I go again... trying to bring us all together in one big dirty-boy-group-hug... I know tommyo and k0na are in... Mimio I'm pretty sure is game...
... seff... dobs?...
... you know you want it... ;)